Episode 64 | Africa’s Emergence as a Global Power with Bonney Tunya

Bonney Tunya  00:00

I think a leader needs to be able to once they’re persuaded that we’re marching in the right direction, be able to inspire courage amongst the people that they’re leading. To be able to make this thing. So remember, I my understanding of leadership, and at least what I’ve been able to do is that you are not the implementer. Right? Your job is to buff the vision, develop it, and influence your people enough to carry it as their own.

Voiceover  00:28

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  01:03

Hey there superstars This is Karan, and thanks for joining another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. Now, as you know for season three each month we’re featuring leaders who have interesting roles in a particular industry. And today’s episode is part of our special series featuring the perspectives of journalists and editors in the media. On today’s show, we’re gonna give you a taste of journalism from the continent of Africa. Now in America, much of our news is US centric, but I can tell you that after having traveled extensively throughout the globe myself, I know that the rest of the world is absolutely fascinating and are also doing groundbreaking things as well. So if you haven’t added a global news outlet to your list of content providers, you are definitely missing out and may soon be left behind for not recognizing global trends in both life and business. Now one of the areas in the world, as I mentioned, who has definitely expanded their influence on a global stage in the past decade is the full continent of Africa. To give us a taste of some buzzworthy stories I’m so pleased to have on today’s show, Bonney Tunya, who is BBC Africa’s editor for CO production, where he manages partnerships between the BBC and local television networks in Kenya. Bonney is a distinguished journalist who has covered business and political stories in Africa for over a decade, and was previously CNBC Africa’s East Africa anchor, definitely listen to how Bonney made a career pivot from veterinary medicine to journalism, and how more extensive access to the internet in the early 2000s has fueled business and opportunity throughout Africa to the height that it is today. And lastly, remember to stay tuned for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s take where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now, enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karen and welcome to another episode of the elite at the top of your game podcast. Today’s episode is part of our special series featuring the perspectives of journalists and editors in the media from around the world. And we are so pleased to have on today’s show, Bonney Tunya, who is BBC Africa’s editor for CO production, and he’s gonna tell us what that means in a minute. But he looks after the partnerships between the BBC and the local television networks in Kenya. And prior to this role, he was BBC Africa’s senior broadcast journalist for business and before that he was CNBC, East Africa anchor. And a cool fact about Bonney is that he has interviewed eight presidents and several heads of states and governments. And so you know, you’re gonna have to hear a little bit about that, because that is leadership at a super high level. But welcome to the podcast. Bonney,

Bonney Tunya  04:15

Thanks for having me. This is such an honor for me here.

Karan Rhodes  04:17

Oh, it’s an honor to have you definitely. We’re excited for you to give us this sneak peek into some of your perspectives on some great stories or people that you have learned about across your professional journey. But before we do that, we’d love to learn a little bit about you personally. So just as for as much as you feel comfortable, we’d love you to share a little bit about maybe where you grew up your educational pursuits. And do you have any personal hobbies that you love this year?

Bonney Tunya  04:49

Yeah, sure. Great. So thanks for having me. My name is Bonney. I’m an African journalist based out of Nairobi, Kenya. I have been a journalist forover 15 years now, so started the local TV here in Kenya, and went to South Africa and Kigali for CNBC Africa. We covered lots and lots of financial news in that space, created lots of data and helps people really understand the deal flow on the continent and came back to help establishment of BBC Africa started off as looking at the weekly long forms for business. And then that was in English, Swahili and French then moved on to be the coproductions editor. And like you said, yeah, basically, CO production was BBC, as you know, has been a fantastic news outlet global well known for its credibility and stand for the truth. And there’s lots and lots of partners who work with the BBC across the continent. And so part of the Africa expansion programme, then was to look at, can we build capacities for these people that we’re working with? Can we help them tell their stories better. And so that is what I was looking after for East Africa, and also, the long division of what a coproductions editor is, but basically the storyteller and helping tell our stories better tell us to have nuanced tell a story that really has people in the heart of it. So I was born in Nakuru, which is about 150 kilometers off of Nairobi. Sorry, in Nairobi, we use kilometers and so try and do the math.

Karan Rhodes  06:28

That’s right.

Bonney Tunya  06:31

So pretty normal background, normal childhood. But here’s a fun fact. So, so I didn’t go to college to study journalism. I went to study vet medicine, okay. I was working here, and I thought, I loved animals. And you know, that sort of…midway through that I kind of gravitated towards the arts and public speaking and that sort of thing, and featured in numerous TV commercials, different kind of performance arts, hosted events. And so that sort of got me towards this. Obviously, I didn’t know that, you know, journalism is what it was, I just knew what I didn’t want to do that was staring down a microscope for hours on end. But long story short, about four years of that I shifted and started practicing then went back to school to learn journalism. And like they say the rest is history.

Karan Rhodes  07:26

Wow. That is amazing. And I guess that also

Bonney Tunya  07:31

you mentioned about my hobbies. Sorry to jump in. I forgot about that. So I’m…So I run, not just because I’m Kenyan, that not all Kenyans run, by the way.

Karan Rhodes  07:45

I know that that’s a stereobype

Bonney Tunya  07:49

Yeah. So what do you call a recreational runner, not a Pro Runner, but fairly consistent. My specialty is half marathon, or that’s 21 kilometers. And yeah, it’s difficult training for it. But after you’re done, you feel it’s worth all the trouble?

Karan Rhodes  08:04

Well, you’re my hero, because I can only run about two miles. So for you to run. But I feel good after that. So that’s my own little marathon, just for me. But how exciting is that?

Bonney Tunya  08:22

Absolutely

Karan Rhodes  08:23

But I give you kudos, too, because, you know, a lot of people don’t talk about making a career pivot. And so you know, you starting out being interested in veterinary medicine and moving to journalism, just shows that it can be done and be done successful. So I just want to make sure to acknowledge that and how great that is for you.

Bonney Tunya  08:44

The thing that I always remind people is that at times, when you build a new shift to something totally different, and you have some level of success. People think, Oh, you always knew you wanted to do this, or you don’t, I didn’t know. And most people actually don’t. So there’s a level of introspection and self awareness that at times, it could only be I know what I don’t want. But I’m also clear on what I want. And so when you’re in a space where there is peer mentorship, that you’re exposed to, the things that you gravitate towards, that the vision or whatever it is becomes clear, if you believe in purpose and whatever, that becomes clear. But I mean, my point is, it’s never, it’s never clear from the get go. You have to figure it out as you go.

Karan Rhodes  09:30

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for that. I will say from them. You know, I’m based in Atlanta, Georgia, and on the east coast of the US, and I’m fascinated with the workplace and business and what have you and what I have been encouraged about, especially over the last, I’ll say, five to seven years is that America has gotten out of it silo a little bit from just being focused on the US to really being interested in other countries and Africa is really a hotspot right now, business wise, in educational wise, it’s the new frontier, if you will. So I’m curious, you know, because and now you, before you in CO production, you covered a lot of the business sector and government sectors. Are you seeing greater interest in Africa from other countries outside of Accra?

Bonney Tunya  10:26

Absolutely. I mean, we’ve seen lots and lots of interest. So obviously, first, if you look at, say, the late, late 90s, going into 2000, there was very little known on the continent, we had a big data problem, where there’s the stuff that is happening. I mean, that was a period of Africa rising. But all this data was in different spots. So if you’re an investor in the US, so you’re a policymaker, and you want to come to the continent, you don’t even know where to start, because you don’t know what’s happening there. Then you move into the early 2000s. And there’s a lot more conversation days, greater Internet penetration, there’s a lot of integration from the communication space, and Africa starts to speak to each other, we start seeing lots of conversations in the regional blocks. So trade starts to move leader starts to speak to each other. And then there’s this craze of, hey, Africa, perhaps is a next stop in terms of resources for for manufacturing, and everybody comes here. And it looked like the Chinese beat everybody to to Africa, you know, in terms of setting up that, and then move that to 2010 going to 2015, when Africa is saying Hold on, we are not just sources of raw material resources for your industries, we also want to convince you to the table, we have to value what we want to expand our industries. And then we see better negotiations, better deals signed over the continent. But you’re right. I mean, there is a lot of interest right now, courtesy of the fact that the world is becoming smaller, and everybody else Can speak to each other. But also there is an awareness amongst African leaders that, you know, we need to get our act together to be able to have a seat at the table. But that excitement, in my view, looking at my crystal ball is likely to go on Africa has a fairly young population, there is a lot more integration. within countries. There is also you know, a lot of excitement in terms of a lot of the things that do work properly in the West. So for example, if you look at conversations about climate change, for example, Africa has a lot better chance to, you know, fix those wrongs, in terms of the policies that are making them. So that is fairly exciting. But also just opportunities to attack new markets, you know, we’re looking at a continent that is fragmented into small little countries. But then if you’re an investor, if you want to go global, if you’re scaling up your your industry, your business, then this is a market that is attractive. I see right now, lots of interests. And like I said, there’s a lot of knowledge about the continent outside than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. And my sense is that we’re gonna see a more integrated world, where Africans and everybody else gets a lot more integrated as global citizens engaging in trade and whatnot, you know, so I mean, it’s a fantastic place for a young continent, as they call it. And really, I think the honors is for the people making the laws for the leadership to really try and figure out how do we best place our future generations to have a seat at this global table. So I think it’s really exciting for the continent right now.

Karan Rhodes  13:48

Yeah, I agree. And I must say, you know, you can probably tell me more, because you live there, and you live and breathe this every day, I get a little nervous sometimes, because there is so much additional potential there that I’m, I’m nervous that other countries might come and try to take a bigger piece of the pie, then they may should have and the the citizens don’t benefit. As much as I know, even when I was at Microsoft, we had global teams and groups that we took to different countries so that they could have a bigger global immersion and have a better appreciation. And I know there’s a lot of venture capitalists that set the incubators for, you know, new tech companies or new whatever companies sectors are and hoping to cash in on some of the advancements that come into the continent. So it maybe it’s just me, but I just want it to be a win-win. That’s, I guess, my concern.

Bonney Tunya  14:46

Yeah. Right. I mean, we’ve it’s an issue that we’ve talked about, for so long. I’ve covered it as a journalist, we got into a space where this excitement or this potential was there, but a lot organizations didn’t know how to take advantage of it. So then first, we had the wave of brain drain and massive exits by educated African. So Africans would go either for scholarships or family vacation in the West, and they don’t come back, or educated Africans would then leave because they had the papers to go back in the West, that is slowly changing, because there is some African awareness that is coming. And we are seeing a lot more move back. If you look at Ghana, for example, there’s lots and lots of people, there’s a project actually a huge campaign to try and get Ghanians back home to build their country. And this is happening across Rwanda, Kenya, in a lot of other countries. But you mentioned about opportunities. And we’ve seen, rightly so lots of excitement around the PC space, we had a major challenge where I mean, basically was a protected space, we’ve seen lots of an Africanism that is sort of driving the whole excitement about Africans reclaiming their space coming back. And like I did mention, there are lots and lots of examples of this movement. If you look at Ghana, if you look at Rwanda, Zambia, Kenyans are coming back home to you know, sort of build this. But I’d like to talk a little bit more about the excitement around the VC space, right. So Africa was obviously a virgin market, where lots of players in the VC space from Silicon Valley would would come here set up beautiful companies and ship at a profit. And we’d also see lots and lots of I mean, disproportionately high number of organizations that are led by white founders, or foreign founders would always get more funding. And so I know, for example, several organizations that are now I’ve got ecosystem builders, that are campaigning and trying to prop up local founders, women founders, to be able to take part in these opportunities. And Dan’s shifting, we’re seeing a lot more local grown startups and enterprises really step up, compete, and able to really, you know, operate globally. So I’m excited that everybody’s coming here. But there’s a lot that is changing to try and revive that. I’m glad that lots of policy makers are learning this now, for example, in Kenya in I guess, Nigeria, as well, we have startup bills in Parliament, that sort of guide how investment in that space is done. So that is changing. And it can be influenced by leadership in the sense of being very thoughtful about what’s happening globally, and having an awareness and not in our nationalistic sort of way, but in a space that props up, you know, the local players, and allows them to compete. So I’m excited about this, I’m not too worried about being taken advantage of by everybody else. I think Africa now has a voice, they should be able to set up for what they believe is rightfully theirs. But we need to guard and protect the space where our founders, entrepreneurs, can compete can interact, can do business with everyone else across the globe.

Karan Rhodes  18:07

Love that. Absolutely love that. And I totally agree. And keeping with the theme, like I mentioned, you and your you know, 15 year history, as the in the media space, I’m sure there have got to be at least one or two stories of people who are doing really big things that really impressed you. And I know how hard it is to impress a journalist, you know, they’re always trying to plan a great story with a great angle and pick and choose. So can you shared with this one, either individual or entity or company or organization, famous or not? That has really earned your respect as being a leader in their space?

Bonney Tunya  18:49

Right? I guess like you said, it’s, it’s still like a kid. So you can’t because of fear. Right? Right. Being a journalist on the continent, I have been a witness to a lot of fantastic, you know, organizations and people and leaders who are really stepping out. And, you know, like I said, leading from the heart courageously taking the steps to influence generations and then populations. First off my list would be president of the African Development Bank, very charismatic Nigerian president. What’s his name? Gosh, it’s disappearing, just

Karan Rhodes  19:29

under pressure, right.

Bonney Tunya  19:33

President Abisina

Karan Rhodes  19:38

Abisina…ok

Bonney Tunya  19:39

President Abisina was one time agriculture minister for Nigeria, he went to become the president of the FDB. And the organization has had lots of input courtesy of his leadership, where he’s able to integrate lots of data and research that has been put there, but then merging it with the reality on the ground and just seeing leaders step up and inspire change in such a huge organization that is designed to drive development on the continent. For me, I think that speaks to, you know, it owns my admiration, but also just looking at how can somebody who use the office in which they’re in to impact such change. So that for me has been fantastic, since it can be selfish and give you an example as well. And this is not an individual but an organization, right? Sure, absolutely. Everybody knows about m PESA. Right. It’s mobile money transfer system. M PESA, was a brainchild of Safaricom, one of the leading telcos in the country. Back, we’ve seen lots and lots of blue chip companies roll out fantastic products with populations. But it’s the transformative power that M PESA had in terms of just lifting people from poverty, an element of inclusivity, in terms of bringing the rural populations into the financial system, and allowing them to trade, send money home, to integrate M PESA is a verb in Kenya, you know, you M PESA somebody’s money. And for me, those are fantastic examples of, you know, when you have very, you know, visionary leaders who are able to take advantage of the resource, and the convening power of the officers in which they hold to drive change. So that for me, those two would be things that really stand out that whatever sector you are in, I mean, it’s not so much about the profit anymore. The bottom line is is about the kind of influence and the transformative power, that you have an actual impact that you have on people’s lives.

Karan Rhodes  21:46

I love that. And you know what, even in the storys that those two that you just spoke about, you touched on each one of the tactics that I write about in my book, and you know, bringing their expertise to the table and finding ways to do things when others haven’t really thought about it and driving for results to impact the community and all of that, you know, all of that. I absolutely understand why you selected those two examples. And for our listeners, I’ll make sure to reference these in the show notes so that you can learn more, both about President Abasia and impresa with in person at a C Okay, gotcha. Yeah, Okay, gotcha. So thank you for that. I’m just curious, do you think that others give are aware of how impressive both the President and the company are? Are they widely known in Kenya? Have you all covered them well?

Bonney Tunya  22:51

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, these two characters have been well covered. And I think it makes it even easier for people to know them, because of the impact of the organizations they lead and sort of off their work. So a lot of people, even those who may not really understand what’s happening in the financial world, sort of get an understanding of who these people are, or what these organizations stand for.

Karan Rhodes  23:16

Absolutely. Well, that’s great. Well, I’d like to pivot just a little bit, because this is gonna lead into something that you had shared with me earlier. First of all, you were kind enough to share that out of the tactics that I write about in my book, the one that really resonated with you was leading with courageous agility. And listeners, if you don’t remember leading with courageous agility is all about having the courage and the fortitude to do what you think is right, or stand up for what you believe in, even if the feature is unclear. And so Bonney, you had shared that that was one that really resonated with you and that you’re also very passionate about, leading from the heart and having courage and empathy. And so I’d love to understand both what in your terms and your words, why leading with courageous agility really resonated with you? And what is leading with the heart mean for you?

Bonney Tunya  24:14

Right? So carriage for me, I think is a key character that lots of leaders in the present world need and having worked in fairly large organizations, we have systems right. And those systems have been built over time. And those systems sort of hold the organization’s together, but the challenge is that when you are part of such an organization, at times, effecting change becomes difficult, right? Because we have ways of doing things. I think courage in a leader is us stepping up to this is the space that I have. This is the information that I have, this is where I need to take my people, my team, do I have the courage to actually take them. So some of these decisions might be unpopular, some of them might not be popular, especially amongst the people who sign the checks. So in terms of finances, all that might require disturbance of the interdependence between the teams that do operate. And some of them might require changing the status quo, in terms of how things are done. Now, some of these changes might not be bad, they just might be uncomfortable. I think a leader needs to be able to once they’re persuaded that we’re marching in the right direction, be able to inspire courage amongst the people that they’re leading, to be able to make this thing to remember, I, my understanding of leadership, and at least what I’ve been able to do is that you are not the implementer. Right, your job is to block the vision, develop it, and influence your people enough to carry it as their own right. And so you also need the courage to be able to, in the face of uncertainty in the face of we don’t know what’s next, especially now we are living at times where, you know, there’s a lot of disruptions, there’s a lot of uncertainty in the financial world, in the policy world, and a lot to change. You said companies lay off the seed companies take unpopular decisions. But being a leader who’s able to say, Hey, I’m persuaded that this is where we’re going. And this is where I want to go. But also, that is a product of open conversation and vulnerability amongst leaders where you’re able to allow your team to question the direction you’re taking them. Because until they feel comfortable, then you’re not you’re sick them, you will be leading and running too far off, and you’ve left anybody else behind. So I sense that courage in two ways. One, in speaking clearly, the vision and, you know, leading your people towards that. But courage is to be able to be in spaces, where the people that you work with, and the people that you lead is able to question, you know, the vision and be able to give answers that directly currency of your persuasion as a leader. So that’s my sense. But going back to leading from the heart, it comes from empathy. So I was leading my team through COVID. And there was a lot that had to change in how we did things. First, you’re moving from walking on site to remote, and you’re trying to ensure that technically, your tools work, but also the human resource are adaptive and productive in the spaces that they they are in has a lot of very difficult because it came with a lot of change in the workflows in how KPIs are done, in how do you measure performance in your people? How would you communicate? How do you handle difficult conversations, all that was messed up, because COVID just created this wall around everyone. But what I learned, I think, as a leader made it bearable, and a little bit easier to get my team across through that, because we haven’t been the heart of projects that we’re doing. And there’s a lot of excitement around it. But then inhibited how we work in terms of collaboration in terms of getting things done in time. The whole idea was when people understand that as a leader, you know where they are in the field, and you identify with the challenges that they do, then they are more responsive, they tend to carry their weight more. Because often in many organizations, when there is a challenge, the leaders tend to have it easier, you know, they will be the first one is to decide who works remote or not. That would be the first step to get jobs. You know, it’s always at the top. But if you’re able to clearly communicate that you’re empathetic, and you understand the challenges that they they’re facing in trying to just get the job done, then it’s a lot easier, they tend to leave you because they know you’re part of them. So I think empathy is not just a tool or a skill that the modern day leader needs to have, in the sense that it’s not always about driving people to get to a goal. But it’s working with them. And helping them understand that at the end of the day, outside of the work, they’re just human beings, right? And they demand the dignity and the respect, you know, that exists. So for me, I think those two are big because first, you can be an effective leader. But then when your people know that you know what they’re going through. And when they people see the courage you have in spelling out the vision and in taking decisions towards that. Then it becomes it’s you build a solid team. But one last thing we’re going to get about being a courageous leader is a lot of huge organizations are fairly bureaucratic. And so there’s a lot of politics,

Karan Rhodes  29:54

Very. Not fairly, very!

Bonney Tunya  29:57

There’s a lot of politics in getting things done,  even positive thing Good things. And so being courageous enough to navigate this, and still speak your truth, while focusing, you know, keeping an eye on the ball is very important because we get caught up in the politics in the bureaucracy and in the, in the in the groupings that exist in organizations. But if you’re able to still keep your eye on the ball, despite of all this, then you tend to be a lot more effective.

Karan Rhodes  30:25

Absolutely. Boy, we can drop the mic at that that’s so insightful, right there. If everybody could take that in and follow that and have that empathy. They’ll be serious, though. But before I let you go Bonney, I’ve got to know for you personally, because you are very thoughtful and insightful individual. You know, leadership is hard. I mean, anyone, any leader, even if you’re leading as an individual, it’s a hard thing to do well, and I’m just curious, what does it take for you to lead at the top of your game? What do you try to concentrate on? I know, empathy, but what else do you do, to try to be at your best,

Bonney Tunya  31:05

I think, being authentic in the sense of honesty, in terms of how you communicate and what the goals are, and how to get people. So being very clear and honest with the team. I think a lot of times as leaders, we are disingenuous, because we are caught up with power. We are the top right, we’re doing all this bossy things. But I think when people see a genuineness in the kind of direction that you’re pointing them to, then they tend to join and be part of the team. So my idea of leadership is defining the vision, but mentoring people to get up not running and hoping to catch up by actually going with them through the challenges, but with a clear vision of this is where we want to go. So genuineness. I don’t know if there’s a limit to that. But we can break it up in leadership for me, is very important. And I think that, then, is what I would want to be remembered for in terms of you’re very clear, genuine and thoughtful in leading the teams that you are, wow.

Karan Rhodes  32:14

Well, I think that’s exactly what you’re going to be remembered for. Because you come across as very empathetic, authentic, insightful. You name the additive, you’ve done it. And this is, you know, been a fantastic episode. So I hate to go with where the end of time, but I want to thank you so much for the courage to be part of this special series of featuring journalists and editors around the world. And thank you so much for the gift of your insight. We really appreciate it.

Bonney Tunya  32:46

Thank you so much. This was fun. Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to listening to this and a lot more than the leaders that that you’ve spoken to over time.

Karan Rhodes  32:54

Absolutely. All right. And thank you to listeners for tuning in to another episode of Lead at the top of your game. Take care. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Bonney Tunya, editor for CO production for BBC Africa. Links to his bio his entry into our leadership playbook. And additional resources can be found in the show notes built in on your favorite podcast platform of choice and on the web at leisure game podcast.com. And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of global leadership in Africa. Now, I thought it may be helpful to help you better understand both the opportunities and the challenges that Africa faces as they continue to lead their seat on the global stage, that if your company or employer is not yet doing business in Africa, believe me, it may be just around the corner, because Africa is one of the last untapped opportunities for business expansion. So I want to help you become a bit more globally astute about what Africa’s rise may eventually mean for you. Now, in the shownotes, I want you to be sure to check out two resources. I have the links there. It’s too much to tell you about right here. But believe me, it’s some fantastic information. The first resource is World Bank’s take on the state of Africa. And in particular, I want you to learn more about Sub Saharan Africa, which is an extremely diverse region composed of low lower middle, upper middle and high income countries. But what’s interesting, out of all the countries there are 22 of which which are classified as fragile or conflict affected. However, this region boasts rich natural resources, the world’s largest free trade area and a 1.2 billion person market. Now we’ll note that growth remains and even across the whole continent of Africa grants as well. You know, East Africa has a growth rate of about 1.8% in 2023, West Africa is expected to grow at 3.3% this year, so quite a difference across the continent. The second resource I want you to check out is from the McKinsey Global Research Division, and is entitled reimagining economic growth in Africa, turning diversity into opportunity. Now, this article is absolutely pure goal, as it highlights how the GDP per capita is struggling how there is no quote unquote, one Africa, because of the divergence across the countries, and how Africa is the world’s fastest urbanizing region, but it depends too heavily on its primary cities, versus including its rural areas, just absolutely fascinating. So take a look at that article as well. But if I can leave you with anything, it is to get curious about the world, if you’re not already, there’s unlimited opportunity out there for you on a personal or business or career level. It may not be Africa, maybe it’s in Europe, or maybe it’s in South America or somewhere else. But just be open to the opportunities that the universe places in your path. And believe me, you will be so much the richer. Well, that’s all for today. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast and share it with just one friend because by doing so you will empower them to also lead it at the top of their game. Thanks again for listening and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.