Picture this: a seasoned real estate maven who seamlessly transitions from selling homes in California to drilling wells in remote African villages. Yes, you heard that right. But this is not just about water wells; it’s about breaking chains, challenging traditions, and building dreams for those who need it the most.

In this episode, we delve into the life of a remarkable individual whose passion for people knows no bounds. From the sun-kissed shores of Southern California to the vast landscapes of Africa, our guest’s story unfolds with a captivating blend of resilience, empathy, and a relentless pursuit of positive change.

Today’s conversation is a testament to the boundless potential of human compassion and the courage to make a difference. It transcends borders, industries, and conventional norms, leaving you inspired and ready to break YOUR chains, whatever they may be.

John Renouard is the visionary founder of John spearheads initiatives to bring clean water, economic empowerment, and justice to communities in need. His innovative approach to philanthropy goes beyond traditional models, emphasizing sustainable solutions and community ownership.

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    1. What is the relationship between leadership, culture, and gender in an organization?
    2. How does water drilling technology positively impact communities, and what challenges may arise?
    3. How does practicing courageous agility benefit individuals and organizations?
    4. What aspects of nonprofit work contribute to personal fulfillment?
    5. What are the pros and cons of intuitive decision-making, and how can individuals balance it with analytical reasoning?

    “Great ideas also come in less consequential times. I follow my own advice… do your homework, then trust your gut.”

    John Renouard

    Founder and Executive Director , WHOlives


    [04:25] A Normal Joe’s Extraordinary Journey

    [07:03] Drilling for a Difference: From Selling Homes to Providing Clean Water Worldwide

    [17:16] Beyond Charity: The Transformative Power of Empowerment in Global Water Initiatives

    [21:13] Breaking Chains, Building Hope: A Journey to End Female Genital Mutilation and Child Marriage

    [27:41] Signature Segment: John’s Tactics of Choice: Leading with Courageous Agility

    [30:18] Signature Segment: John’s entry into the LATTOYG Playbook: Building Success through Empathy and Supportive Leadership

    [34:55] Signature Segment: Karan’s Take


    John Renouard, the visionary founder of, is a beacon of hope in the realm of humanitarian efforts, with a mission focused on Water, Health, and Opportunity. As the driving force behind this organization, John is committed to creating lasting positive change by addressing the fundamental challenges faced by communities worldwide. The acronym WHO in stands for Water, Health, and Opportunity, encapsulating the organization’s multifaceted approach to tackling poverty and improving the quality of life for countless individuals. Recognizing that poverty cannot be eradicated but can be replaced by economic growth, John’s philosophy centers on creating opportunities rather than fostering dependency.

    One groundbreaking innovation epitomizing John’s dedication to transformative change is the “Village Drill,” a human-powered water drilling rig. This ingenious solution allows to bring clean water to millions of people, a crucial step in breaking the cycle of poverty. The delivery of clean and abundant water addresses immediate needs and sparks a cascade of positive effects, offering new hope to families in dire circumstances.




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    Episode 57 | Solving the Impossible with Intuitive Decision-Making with John Renouard

    John Renouard  00:00

    I literally came to a realization that if these guys can make a nickel in this business, I think I can make a fortune. Because in my way of thinking they had everything backwards. And it was all about them. I thought, “Man, if you can turn this boat around and make it about the client, and really focused on their needs and making them happy, you could really make a difference”.


    Voiceover  00:25

    Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.


    Karan Rhodes  01:00

    Hey there superstars, this is Karan and welcome to another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. You all know that I’m a movie fanatic, right? And I love movies of all genres. And about five years ago, I came across the movie called a girl from Mogadishu. And it started Asia Noemi King from the How To Get Away from murder series. It was based on a true story about female genital mutilation also call FGM. And FGM is a custom which is now largely banned in most countries around the world. But it was extremely common and throughout the continent of Africa, and it is still somewhat used today. It’s because it’s part of their culture, but more and more countries are banning it. So imagine my entry when I came across a leader who actually considers himself an everyday average Joe, who possess the courageous agility to do his part in tackling two of the most complex humanitarian challenges throughout the world. So on today’s show, I’m so pleased to feature John Renouard, who is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit WHOlives and who lives focuses on empowering people with clean water in the developing world, and also rescuing girls from female genital mutilation and all they also help those who want to escape from child marriages. John shares such a compelling story on how embracing your own intuition can generate ideas that can unexpectedly change the world. And he talks about how he is used this phenomenon throughout his very successful life and career. And as normal please be sure to stay for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s take, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now, enjoy the show. Hey there, superstars, this is Karan and welcome to another episode of the leader, the top of your game podcast. We have a fantastic guest today that has a story that will resonate with all our hearts. He is multifaceted multi dimensional, a business leader as well as a nonprofit leader who is making real differences in the world and everything he does. So we’re so pleased to have on today’s show, John Renouard, who is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit who lives which is a 5013 c nonprofit focused on empowering people with clean water in the developing world and rescuing girls from female genital mutilation, also known as FGM, and child marriage. So welcome to the podcast John.


    John Renouard  04:00

    Thanks, guys. Well, it’s a pleasure to be here. I appreciate that introduction. Thank you. You’re so welcome. It’s our honor to have you and it was great in our pre-chat because there’s so many things we could talk about, and I want to share as much as we can with the listeners. But before we delve deep into that, you know, just this for as much as you feel comfortable we’d love to get a sneak peek into maybe your personal life and passions. ohohYeah.. So I consider myself just a normal Joe. I grew up in Southern California, kind of lower middle class. Mom was a stay at home mom, dad had a government job. We spend our summers waterskiing. He spent our winters out motorcycle riding out in the California deserts. I got married pretty young. I was 21. My wife and I we have six children. Yes, that’s too many.


    Karan Rhodes  04:51

    No it’s not! That’s fantastic!


    John Renouard  04:52

    You know, it’s fantastic. We actually had four and just felt that our family wasn’t quite complete. And so we actually ended up a DA thing two more at the same time they were young, they were three and just turning four. So we have six children. We’re now officially as of literally, like four days ago. We’re empty nesters. And so


    Karan Rhodes  05:13

    How does it feel?


    John Renouard  05:15

    ohnohnJohnhnhnWow, I love it. My poor wife is is like, she gets enough on me. And so she’s like, you know, she needs these distractions. I relish in the quiet I relish watching my own TV shows. As much as I love my kids, though, it’s been wonderful. Yesterday was our 37th anniversary. Been married 37 years or so. So we’re going to 38 my wife told me that I can’t be that many, but apparently it has been. But yeah, so I guess just a pretty normal life. Just you know, nothing spectacular. And but we really have fun. I tell you, as a family, we do a lot of outdoor stuff. And we just our effort is to work hard and play hard like everybody else.


    Karan Rhodes  05:56

    Oh, that is fantastic. Sounds like it’s fun over there in the Renouard house. So they do come back, they do come back and visit and stay a bit. So you’ll be


    John Renouard  06:10

    We have nine what’s one on the way grandkids and so Oh, so almost 10, 110 grandchildren, and my wife would kill me about it mentioned our six grand dogs. And so


    Karan Rhodes  06:23

    Nice! I’m a dog lover too.


    John Renouard  06:25

    We’re a dog family, for sure. So


    Karan Rhodes  06:30

    Well, fantastic. Well, thank you for sharing.


    John Renouard  06:33

    You bet.


    Karan Rhodes  06:34

    Well, gosh, we can start in so many places. What I would like to do is let you briefly share a bit about how you grew your real estate agency. I know we’re going to spend most of our time on WHOlives but yeah, I want the audience members didn’t know that, you know, you were kind of deep in the world of business for quite a long time. And then I’m not sure if you’re still there, or you’re doing now WHOlives simultaneously. But I’d love to hear the story first about your real estate. And then we’ll go into WHolives. Yeah,


    John Renouard  07:04

    so I got into real estate. And I think it’s a funny story. But we had sold our property in California. And we were we were moving to Washington State. And I didn’t know what I was going to do. And during this transition time I was living with my mother in law. And and I always tease that there was going to be a death in the family. Now, I wasn’t sure if it was going to be a suicide or a murder, but somebody was going to die if I had to if I couldn’t get out of the house. And so literally to get out of the house. And while our house was settling, and I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with the next stage of my life. And again, I’m like 2425 years old, I decided to get my real estate license. I had dabbled with it earlier. And when I got the license in Washington, you got to put it somewhere, right? You got to put it in an office. And so I just went and I interviewed like five offices. I said, let me talk to your newest agent, your oldest agent, and whatever he didn’t want me to talk to, and just kind of interview and see how they like it. And after doing that with five offices, I literally came to a realization that these guys can make a nickel in this business, I think I can make a fortune.


    Karan Rhodes  08:14



    John Renouard  08:14

    because in my way of thinking, they had everything backwards, it was all about them. As a man, if he can turn this boat around and make it about the client, and really focused on their needs and making them happy, you could really make a difference. And that little philosophy change really, I think propelled me into this business. And after just a very short few months, I was the number one agent in the largest office in the Northwest. And then two years later, I was the number one agent in the whole region. After that I bought my first office the Commission’s in the in my office the first the year before I bought it was $300,000 with 20 agents. I bought the office, I let 15 of the 20 agents go I brought on another 20. So we’re about 35 agents, the next full year of being in business. The Commission’s paid out were over $3 million. So that was the rise in the amount of sales that each agent was doing. And really the the key was to focus on the people and make sure that you know that we’re making it fun and interesting now, but we never did that at a sacrifice to our old to our own time. I don’t believe but in 18 years, I was in real estate. I probably worked six Saturdays, and probably two Sundays. I mean, it was just an emergency. But other than that I was Monday through Friday. And so anyways, but I sold the offices. We had nine franchises, and we had you know, depending on the season four to 600 agents working for us. At one point in the entire Northwest. I had 70 of the top 100 agents Working for my company so, so that was pretty good.


    Karan Rhodes  10:04

    I was just going to tell the audience if you didn’t get that, what was the lesson out of that? is making sure you having the right talent? Yes. They always say the right butts in the seats if you will, the right there because you had to maybe let some that weren’t quite as optimal, you know, go to get your superstars in. And so that lesson Yeah, definitely.


    John Renouard  10:27

    Yeah, and then train and train and train. And, and the irony is the ones that listen to the training who were open, we’re the ones that really, really succeeded. So that was a great time of our life. And I feel like we did it well. And we did it differently. And but we didn’t sacrifice. Again, I didn’t sacrifice I went to every single. We’re very athletic family and and so I went to every single soccer game and football game wrestling match. I coached high school football during this time, I ran the junior wrestling program during this time. And so on top of all of this, yeah, I crammed everything I could into, you know, the 4045 hours a week. And it worked. Well, it worked. Well.


    Karan Rhodes  11:12

    It sounds like it. Yeah. So let’s transition into WHOlives can you tell us a founding story of that?


    John Renouard  11:19

    Yeah. So WHOlives kind of came as, as a surprise that came out of the blue. I didn’t sit down and decide one day that I wanted to be philanthropic. And I was always on the other side of the desk, and I’d write checks, and we were involved that way. But it all started with a trip to Africa, my son had spent a couple years over in Kenya, Tanzania doing missionary and humanitarian work. And he came home after those two years. And like six months later, we went back and as a family. And there were just things that I picked up on, which I’m ashamed to say that I didn’t pick up on it earlier. But we were like 10 days into a 25 day trip. And I finally asked, Why are these girls always carrying these buckets on their heads? What are they carrying? And they told me it was water. And I just didn’t believe it. I mean, like everybody. And so when you start looking at it, and you realize that the people’s lives just absolutely revolve around getting water every day. And it’d be one thing if it was clean water. But this was dirty, nasty water. And so on the plane trip home, everybody has a different experience when they travel home from a trip like that. Mine, I’ll tell you quite frankly, was anger, I was angered that this was 2010. And we were still living like this. And so just in my head, I just said, Boy, if we can figure out a way to fix the water problem, then by default, we’re going to fix half of the health care problems because half the people in the hospitals are there because of dirty water. And then if they have clean water, and they’re healthy, then opportunity abounds that girls can go to school, the men can go to work, instead of fetching water all day that the women can be industrious and also help out with the education. So that became the acronym for Water, Health, and Opportunity. So that’s the acronym for WHOlives so that was kind of how it started. But the real thing was, I had no idea what I was doing. And you know what I had to thank heavens, I don’t know, what did we do without Google?


    Karan Rhodes  13:19

    I know!


    John Renouard  13:20

    Real estate I can’t even imagine. But I just started doing what we needed to do. And I literally get up every morning and put my big boy pants on and just try to figure things out. And it was two months after I had started, WHOlives that quite literally in the middle of the night, I have a dream about this human- powered drill. Now I had never seen a well being drilled before. I’m not an engineer, my major wasn’t finance. But it was a strong enough impression that got me out of bed middle of the night, and I had some scratch paper on the kitchen table, I kind of drew out what I could remember. And then I went back to bed. And so and that was kind of the first you could call it what you need to call it a, you know, a miracle or just the cosmos or whatever it was. But then the second day, I got a call from the university that’s near us, asking me if I had a project for their engineering program called a capstone program. And well, I didn’t dare tell them that I had this idea last night. I have this idea, you know, about a human power drill. And at first, we almost hung up on each other because I didn’t remember talking to them. He wasn’t sure why he was calling me. But I had called in two and a half months earlier on a completely different topic. He was on vacation, the Secretary wrote down my number put it on his desk. So now again, two and a half months later, my name appears on his desk and he’s like, Well, I’m just gonna call this guy and that’s how we kind of got this thing going. Well, at the end of the day, they decided to go ahead and and run my idea past the board. And so we became one of like 32 projects for these graduating seniors in engineering to work on. And there’s a lot of strength behind that. But long story short, in 10 months, we have what we now call the village drill. The village drills in 37 different countries. And we have drilled with that technology, over 13,000 water wells, giving clean water to about 12 million people worldwide with that one little invention.


    Karan Rhodes  15:21

    Oh my goodness, okay, I’m just gonna give you with all the audience are gonna give you an ovation. You can’t hear there’s but just multiply mine. That is just so amazing!


    John Renouard  15:33

    Thank you. And you have to understand that my big part was going to sleep and having a dream, you know. So that was my effort. Right? So that’s where it all started. So


    Karan Rhodes  15:46

    Is your I’m curious, your human drill patented. It


    John Renouard  15:49

    1. Yeah. So when you do a project like that with the university, you’re actually paying for their time. And so you do own the IP. And so yeah, so it is patented. But at the same time, our whole philosophy is to get this technology out to the world. So it’s not just us who are drilling, our whole philosophy is to get it in the hands of those who are going to use it, we train. And so most of our drill teams are native drill teams in their native countries. And they’re actually making a small profit every time they drill a well. And so that’s how it becomes sustainable. So we’re not just donating these things, it’s part of this sustainability philosophy that I have that you have to have respect for what you’re doing, you have to have, you have to pay for it. So even the villages have to pay for it. But it cost each family on average, $2 a month for about 10 months. And then a village can pay for a drill. Now the average male worker makes on average $6 a day. So $2 a month is certainly reasonable. And that’s how it’s begun to expand and expand. But the reason it becomes sustainable is because it is them doing everything, we don’t go with our with our white hats on and to save the world. Right? We just, you know, it’s that, you know, teach a man to fish philosophy, right? That’s what we do.


    Karan Rhodes  17:07

    Absolutely, and audience, I encourage you to go on the who live site I was sharing with, with him with John, before we started that I had spent a few days just devouring everything on the site. And he actually asked the video of it, he was being interviewed by a TV station, it actually shows them using it and live. It’s just absolutely amazing. Yeah, I’m just curious, John, there are a few other charitable organizations that focus on trying to bring clean water to the underserved areas of the world, like when pops for me is Charity Water. Do you all operate independently? Or do you all try to partner with others that are have that same mission?


    John Renouard  17:47

    Yeah, so we would love to, you know, to partner with a lot of those larger companies. But we really have very diverse philosophies, Charity Water, and I can’t understate the good that they do. But they’re an awareness group, their main thing is awareness. And so they’re fantastic at raising money, their annual budget is spent on the year, but 60 plus million dollars. is another another big ones. And they raise, you know, somewhere 20 to $30 million. My budget is less than a million dollars a year, but in that realm, but because we’re a doer organization, we actually put in more wells per year than both of those big organizations combined.


    Karan Rhodes  18:32



    John Renouard  18:32

    So our impact per dollar is phenomenal. But again, it would be hard for us to do that without this awareness that’s created by these larger companies. So we’re not saying they’re bad, we’re not saying you know, run away. But we’re different organizations, and again, with our philosophy of really getting them to understand that they can do this themselves. They don’t, when you sit around and wait for something to be given to you. That’s just a horrible lesson to teach. And it actually causes more dependency, because when it breaks, well they wait for you to come back, they’re not coming back. And so now they returned to the rivers to get that dirty, nasty water. But when they own it, I tell you, and we also teach a lot of other income producing economic producing businesses. And we have a very good saying and that is, when a well is making money, the day it breaks is the day it gets fixed. And because they want to continue making that money, but so many other organizations just want to give it out for free, usually with the caveat that you can’t charge anybody for it. But then again, that’s why 85% of all the wells that are put in have been put into Africa. 85% are now derelict, they’re not working. And with the wells that we’ve put in, we’re sure that there’s wells that are not working on the 13,000 We’re just not aware of any as far as we know. They’re all working because again, our business model has been to make them responsible. And it’s just it’s that truly is almost a bigger gift than the water.


    Karan Rhodes  18:38

    That’s where I was just about to say that empowerment. Like you said, teaching them to fish, and doing it for themselves and increases their motivation. And to your point also frees up various family members to now be able to refocus on other skills or small businesses or things that they want to do to bring additional sustainability to their families and their villages. And that’s to your point is almost as much if not more powerful than Wow, yeah. So how did you get focused on the child marriages and the female genitalia mutilation? Because I will say I, I’m a documentary lover, and so I’ve seen a ton on this, as well as there have been, you know, few movies like I think it was a girlfriend luggage issue. And there was one other I think it was zoo, escaping me right now Desert Flower, maybe. But anyway, I was just curious, how did this come to your awareness as well?


    John Renouard  21:13

    Yeah. So really, in our awareness, in that we were asked to drill a well at what they call a rescue center. And this happened during COVID. And I couldn’t travel over there. But I was getting all these reports. And when they lifted those those travel restrictions, I was able to go back over and really learn for myself what’s going on at this rescue center. In the time that I wasn’t there, we really focused on creating economy for them. So we put in a piggery, a milking cow, a chicken business, so that these 70 Plus girls can create a business and not have to rely on other NGOs and government assistance to for their survival. And it just taught them incredible skills, these girls here. And so when we went over, we found out well, what are you being rescued from? And also we’re hearing the stories about FGM, which is female genital mutilation where quite frankly, they go in and they end with a and typically with a dirty razor that’s been used several times, they’ll cut off the clitoris of a young girl, typically between the ages of nine and 14. And if that wasn’t bad enough, they do it in preparation to sell that girl to a much older man, typically in their 60s, as a fourth fifth or 15th bride. Yeah. And even calm a bride is ridiculous, right? Because it’s just slavery. It’s Labor slavery, and it’s sexual slavery. And again, it was just this overwhelming, like, Are you kidding me. And so this is now 2021. And we’re still doing this. But it hit me and right then and there, I knew that I had to do something about it. The confusing part was, there’s 15 other NGOs that are in this particular area, where it’s very, very common, it’s not common everywhere. In Kenya, there’s just a couple of pockets. But in those pockets, 80 to 85% of the girls are being cut during this age, and they actually have a season for cutting. So it’s usually coincides with vacation. So the Christmas, we would call Christmas vacation. And then our summer break is when these cuttings take place. And I took a very holistic approach. And this is how I built all my businesses is how do we solve the problem, don’t want to solve the symptom, I want to solve the problem. And even with this rescue center, we were solving the symptom. And by helping these girls, but that was the symptom. I wanted to stop. And so I put in some very other people call in genius ways of working with the local police and the magistrates and what we would call CPS. And we went in and found out what do you need to succeed? And I’ll tell you just one, one quick, quick story. We went to the police. And we asked them what they needed after they got up off the ground because no one’s ever asked them what they needed before. They said, what we really need is we need fuel for our cars. This each police district had about five cars and they had a fuel allotment. Well that allotment allowed the car to go about 15 miles out and 15 miles back about 30 miles a day. But these atrocities were happening 3040 miles away. So if you traveled 80 miles, you’d have to park that car for three or four days. Right? And I’m like, really fuel. And so so that was one of several things, but as soon as we gave them fuel, now all of a sudden these these police officers were able to go to where these crimes are being committed in this area that hadn’t had about one or two arrests a year for the last 15 years. That in the three months that we ran this the front and we continue to run it. We arrested over 60 of these perpetrators and so far we have 12 have convictions we have 100% conviction rate. And we’re just going through the numbers right now, just because we asked the questions, and we looked at solving the issue, instead of just looking at, you know, what circumstances they’re in. So and so that’s been, that’s been huge. And our goal is to eliminate it first from Kenya. And we have a path to then do that in many of the other countries as well.


    Karan Rhodes  25:27

    And listeners, you should know that although it this does still occur, there are more and more countries that are making it illegal. What is also hard about it is because it’s so ingrained in their culture, it’s an education piece to this too, to help them understand that there is a different way, and it’s okay. You don’t have to follow it. And to get an education piece around the changing in the laws as well. So definitely get to who lives there, their website to learn more about it, and to learn how, what you said, the value of a daughter? Oh, I love that.


    John Renouard  26:03

    Right. I wrote this little book, just a little pamphlet, exactly what you just said. And it outlines the fact that it’s tradition only means that it has been going on for a long, long time, and no one’s had the guts to stop it. Right? Not that it’s good. And so you’re absolutely right. And it is illegal in Kenya, which gives us all the leverage. And so now that we have the leverage, we have to utilize that leverage. And that’s how we’re ultimately gonna stop it. So you’re 100% right, it is absolutely illegal. But doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on?


    Karan Rhodes  26:36

    Yeah. Well, gosh, what a story. We could talk about this all day. Let me tell you. Um, you know, one of the things that we always love to do is ask our guests, you know, which of the leadership tactics that I write about in my book, really jumped out or resonated with them, and you were so kind of shared that leading with courageous agility really had a deep meaning for you and hearing your story and your involvement. But you know, your real estate business throughout corporate because you’ve had many other jobs outside of that, as well, and then all the work with who Liz, I can definitely understand. And listeners, if you remember, leading with courageous agility is all about having the courage and the fortitude to stand up for what you believe in and do what’s right. Even when the feature is unclear. It’s all about taking a step forward with the best information that you have, but having the courage to do it, even if you’re not sure what your end results gonna be. And so, John, I’m just curious for you, why did that approach or behavior type that really resonate with you?


    John Renouard  27:41

    Well, first off, if you’re really going to change this world, you’re going to have to come up with a new idea. And when you create a new idea, you’re going to have a lot of naysayers, especially in the university level, everything is about data. And so if you have a new idea, reality is it’s probably just regurgitated from somebody else. But to have a new idea. It’s got to come from within Well, that’s why we call it the cosmic right, it’s, it’s out there, you have to put yourself in a position to receive that inspiration. But you’re gonna have naysayers, you’re gonna have people, you know, that are acting like the Wizard of Oz, they’re gonna act like a good witch, but there really aren’t, they’re gonna say, Well, you know, that’s too risky for you, honey, you know, please don’t try that. Because, you know, and they’re trying to be helpful and or kind or protect you. Yeah, throw that away, you don’t need protection, you have to go out there and you have to fight. I’m married with six children. So my ego has been gone for a long time. They all put me in my place. And so you know, that prepared me. Because this drill is a fantastic idea. And but yet, it’s you have to sell it to get people in that same mindset of what the good it can do. And so whatever idea you have, that’s why, you know, social media, you cannot listen to the naysayers. You just got to let that stuff roll off your back. If you have that feeling that this is transformative, that this is what your passion is, stick with it. Absolutely no matter what. And it’s not going to be easy. You’re going to have spouses and friends and parents and children tell you oh, you know, come on, Dad. Why don’t you you know, because, again, I always tease that when I got involved with nonprofit, I became very good at the nonprofit part of it. You know, in a real estate, it was just the opposite. I was pretty good at the profit side. But in the philanthropy world, I’m really good at the nonprofit side. My wife had to go back to work for the first time in our marriage. So we would have insurance because of this thing I decided to jump into, but it is it’s worth it. And it takes that type of a sacrifice. So if it’s a passion and you know That’s what you need to do. Just do it all I can say


    Karan Rhodes  30:03

    Just do it. I love it. I love. Well, before we let you go, John, I want to ask you two last quick things. And the first one, I’m just curious, because you have been such a strong leader your entire life, what does it take for you to lead at the top of your game?


    John Renouard  30:18

    I love people. And that helps. And even in my real estate days, if I had somebody who wanted to switch companies, I would never throw a fit, I would hardly even try to convince them to stay with me. But I would always say, what if it doesn’t work out, you’re always welcome to come back one time, one time. One time, yeah. And as a leader, if I can make your job easier, than you’re going to make my job easier. And so I really have always focused that and including it in my work in Africa, if I can make it easier for one of these teams to go out and build a business, then, of course, that’s going to help me in my desire to get these drills and every nation that needs it, that’s the number one thing is, is help the other person become successful, even if it doesn’t put $1 in your bank, because it’s going to put value in your life. And it probably will put $1 in your bank eventually,


    Karan Rhodes  31:16

    Eventually, yes, but that fulfillment, that internal fulfillment will kind of drive you and your spirit, you know, to get up the next morning and do it all over again, right?



    Doing something that you have passion for. And quite honestly, if it was only men who were affected by this, I may not be as passionate, but I have three girls, myself, and plenty of girl grandkids, and my heart really goes out to the injustice that they have to live through. You know, that is, you know, it’s, you’re in a man’s world, you know, and it’s tough. So there’s opportunities that if we can help people break through those some of those barriers, and it’s so important. So look out for other people, make them as happy without sacrificing your own values, do what you can to support them. And that’s been my secret anyways.


    John Renouard  32:08

    Well, it’s working, it definitely is. Well, we’ll have a ton of information about who lives and all the links and everything in the show notes. But I love you to put a voice behind it as well. So where can people find you? And how can they support your nonprofit? Yea. So the easiest thing is to go to a website you’ve already mentioned. So it’s So w-h-o-l-i-v-e-s-dot-o-r-g. And if it resonates with you really become part of the team. It’s the donations again, we don’t go over there and just give things away for free. We go over there. Number one, when we travel, we do a lot of learning. And but if it feels like something you want to get involved with, you can do a monthly donation. And then we do trips three or four times a year. And we bring groups over map I’m leaving in about three weeks to go back to Kenya a group of about 20 business people, entrepreneurs, and quite frankly, we have a retired woman, single woman and a younger, single female going so it’s for everybody. But if you want to transform your life, or the life of your teenager, if they’re depressed, or they’re struggling, bring them on one of these trips, it is life changing. And I can tell more about that when you call in. But it is life changing for people. It really is


    Karan Rhodes  33:22

    Oh wonderful. Well, we’ll definitely make sure that we have that information and all the show notes. And listeners, please please make sure that you check it out. I know this has touched my heart. And I’m sure it’s touching yours out there. So thank you so much, John, for being a guest on our podcast today. We learned so much. And we commend you for all the great work that you and your team are doing.


    John Renouard  33:46

    Well, Karan, thank you, you’re a beautiful woman and with a beautiful spirit. And this has been so fun to get to know you a little bit before. And now through this interview. I just wish you and your listeners all the luck in the world. And just go and find that passion. And a saying that we have is live with purpose, just live with purpose. And so if we can help you do that, give us a call or send us a text.


    Karan Rhodes  34:12

    We’ll do. Thank you. And thank you also listeners for joining in on this episode. Please be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast and share with just one friend because we want to do more to help others to lead at the top of their game. Thank you so much and see you next week. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with John Renouard, founder and executive director of the nonprofit who lives links to his bio his entry into our leadership playbook, and additional resources can be found in the show notes both on your favorite podcast platform of choice and on the web at And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of intuitive decision making. Now imagine that you’re driving down the highway during the evening rush hour. And all of a sudden your intuition or gut instinct tells you to pull off at an earlier exit than normal. And when you get home, you find out that turning a little early allows you to miss a massive accident a little further down the highway. Now, this thought process is normal for us humans, people rely on gut instincts or intuition to help them make decisions. intuitive decision making ability is also known as your sixth sense, and balls being able to gather information that other individuals may miss and factor into decision making is the opposite of rational decision making, which is when individuals use analytics facts, data and step by step processes to come to a decision. Now, in my experience, leaders who excel are able to incorporate just the right balance of both intuitive and rational decision making in daily life. Some typical examples when intuition can play an important role in are things like when you choose your life partner, or selecting the right car to buy or when you’re evaluating a new open job. Maybe it’s when you’re selecting a degree you want to pursue or mill when you’re going out to a restaurant, or what do you want to dress like for the day? I mean, I think you get my drift. But despite the plethora of data and analytics at their disposal, experienced leaders often need to rely on their gut instincts to make complex decisions, especially when they’re under duress. You just need to be aware of any personal biases, emotions and previous experiences that might cloud your judgment or lead to judgment errors. The advantages of intuitive decision making include speed, flexibility, and easily views. But some disadvantages include, as I mentioned, bias in accuracy, and overconfidence. Now, you may be wondering, well, how can I increase my intuitive decision making power? Well, you can do that by gaining expertise, reflecting on past experiences, seeking feedback on your initial thoughts, use data and analytics, and also stay informed of current knowledge and trends that are out there in your market or industry. Well, I hope this helps jumpstart your thinking. And if you’d like to learn more about leadership and action, we have more information on our available programs on the web at developing your Thanks again for joining this episode. And please remember to subscribe and share the podcast with just one dear friend who also desires to lead at the top of their game. Thanks for listening and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.

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