Karoli Hindriks is a dynamic entrepreneur and visionary leader known for her significant contributions to the world of technology and entrepreneurship. She is the CEO and founder of Jobbatical, a groundbreaking startup that has gained recognition as one of Europe’s 10 Most Exciting Technology SMEs, according to Forbes. Jobbatical is on a mission to streamline labor mobility by harnessing the power of technology to simplify immigration processes.

Karoli Hindriks began her entrepreneurial journey at a remarkably young age, when she founded her first company at just 16 years old, earning her the distinction of becoming the youngest inventor in Estonia. She also pivotally launched seven television channels in Northern Europe, including iconic brands such as National Geographic Channels and MTV.

With a passion for technology-driven solutions and a proven track record of innovation, Karoli continues to be a trailblazer in the world of entrepreneurship, shaping the future of labor mobility and making a lasting impact on the global business landscape.

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    1. What are the primary challenges individuals face during immigration and relocation?
    2. How can AI be used to automate immigration processes effectively?
    3. What strategies can leaders employ to maintain agility and foster growth within their organizations during a pandemic?
    4. How do successful entrepreneurs balance leadership responsibilities, personal growth, and self-care?
    5. What leadership tactics are most effective for organizations to successfully tap into global talent pools?

    The forecast is that by 2030, the talent shortage will cost governments and companies around the world 8.5 trillion dollars.”

    Karoli Hindriks

    CEO & Founder, Jobbatical


      [05:10] From Exchange Student to Global Visionary: A Journey of Building a Painkiller Startup

      [14:42] Streamlining Relocation: How Jobbatical Simplifies the Immigration Process

      [22:16] Embracing Feedback and Transformation: Lessons from Jobbatical’s Journey

      [26:03] Karoli’s entry into the LATTOYG Playbook: Thriving Through Turbulence 

      [28:22] Signature Segment:  Karoli’s LATTOYG Tactics of Choice

      [31:11] Leadership Inspirations

      [28:20] Prioritizing Self-Care for Optimal Leadership

      [36:10] Signature Segment: Karan’s Take


      Karoli Hindriks is a dynamic entrepreneur and visionary leader known for her significant contributions to the world of technology and entrepreneurship. She is the CEO and founder of Jobbatical, a groundbreaking startup that has gained recognition as one of Europe’s 10 Most Exciting Technology SMEs, according to Forbes. Jobbatical is on a mission to streamline labor mobility by harnessing the power of technology to simplify immigration processes.

      Karoli’s accomplishments have earned her numerous accolades and honors in the business world. In 2017, she was invited to speak at the prestigious Fortune Magazine Most Powerful Women International Summit, highlighting her influential role in shaping the future of work and technology. For seven consecutive years, EU Startups recognized her as one of the 50 most influential women in the European startup and venture capital landscape, underscoring her lasting impact on the industry.

      The European Council acknowledged Karoli’s inspiring leadership by naming her one of Europe’s eight most inspiring women in 2020. Her influence extends beyond Europe’s borders, as evidenced by her participation as a speaker at the TED conference in Monterey, California, in 2021, where she shared her insights and vision with a global audience.

      Karoli’s entrepreneurial journey began at a remarkably young age when she founded her first company at just 16 years old, earning her the distinction of becoming the youngest inventor in Estonia. She also pivotally launched seven television channels in Northern Europe, including iconic brands such as National Geographic Channels and MTV.

      With a passion for technology-driven solutions and a proven track record of innovation, Karoli Hindriks continues to be a trailblazer in the world of entrepreneurship, shaping the future of labor mobility and making a lasting impact on the global business landscape.




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      Click the plus button on the tab to access the written transcript:

      Episode 49 | How AI is Enabling Global Immigration with Karoli Hindriks

      Karoli Hindriks  00:00

      So we started to support the whole hideous visa and relocation part. And what happened was that we learned through our clients that their biggest problem in international hiring was not finding those people it was actually getting them into the country.


      Voiceover  00:18

      Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.


      Karan Rhodes  00:53

      Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. You may remember in Episode 12, I interviewed a fantastic guest named to Hema Watson. She’s an immigration lawyer who came to the US from Europe and founded her own immigration law firm which helped individuals navigate the US visa laws. We received such great feedback on that episode. And now I’m pleased to share that today’s guests will take our level of knowledge about immigration VSAs and country relocation truly global. Her name is Karoli Hindriks and she is the founder and CEO of Jobbatical, which is a multimillion dollar AI enabled immigration and relocation platform. It’s focused on making the visa process easier by automating several the tedious parts of the relocation visa and immigration process. Now Karoli came to the US as an exchange student from Russian controlled Estonia. And she was so excited to see the world and experience freedoms that she had never known before that she wanted to do her part in helping to build a more open world for those desiring to live or work in areas other than their home country. So be sure to listen to her story of how initially job article was a cross border recruitment company and how she made this decision along with her executive team to transform it into the most scalable visa automation product in its industry. Now, not only is she a fabulous leader herself, but she also gives insights on how technology is continuously impacting how we think about the mobility of global talent pools. She even gets very vulnerable with us and shares how she was considered a micromanager by her team, and how she works so hard to change that perception. And of course, be sure to stay tuned for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s Take, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to another episode of The Lead at the Top of Your Game Podcast. We are so pleased that you have join us for another episode, please be sure to like and subscribe so you can stay in contact with us. And boy do we have a great episode today. And I say that every week. But I truly mean it again this week. It is actually going to be interesting because I was sharing with our guest that what we’re going to talk about is going to be great with the sister podcast that we had on the visa process and immigration processes. And this is a true founder and innovator in this space. So I’m so pleased to have on today’s show, a Karoli Hindriks, who is the founder and CEO of Jobbatical, which is an AI enabled immigration and relocation platform that’s focused on making the visa process easier by automating several of the tedious parts of the relocation visa and immigration tasks and processes. And she is a real hero to me because as a former executive in HR this is something that we had to deal with on a daily basis on the the US side of the pond. So welcome to the podcast. Karoli


      Karoli Hindriks  04:40

      Super excited Karan.


      Karan Rhodes  04:42

      We’re so happy to have you. So are you ready and excited to open up that leadership playbook of yours and share your story?


      Karoli Hindriks  04:49

      Absolutely. Absolutely. All the learning is all the ups and downs on the way.


      Karan Rhodes  04:55

      Fantastic. Fantastic. Well before we dig deep into Your story for as much as you feel comfortable. We you shared a little sneak peek into maybe your personal journey and professional passions.


      Karoli Hindriks  05:10

      Yeah, I think kind of. It’s funny how life sometimes gives you glimpses into your future. So I started Jobbatical a lot later, but actually my passion in terms of what we are building, and it’s really a more open world, right? Started from Portsmouth, New Hampshire, I was actually a 17 year old exchange student. And if you look at where I’m coming from, I’m coming from a tiny country, Estonia in Northern Europe, which today is the biggest innovative digital country. But when in my childhood, it was still occupied by a nasty neighbor. So we were occupied by a Soviet Russia. And so I grew up in a world where the borders were so close that even ideas couldn’t travel. Right. So at the age of 17, I remember I had been as an exchange student to their enforcement for for now six months, it was January, I was in a cafe called Breaking New Ground sipping my hot chocolate with marshmallows and the thought that I had. And it can actually make me the teary, was that if everybody in the world could have the experience that I’m having here, living in another country, that we actually will have a better world.


      Karan Rhodes  06:21

      That is so touching. Absolutely.


      Karoli Hindriks  06:24

      So it’s interesting that now, it took me a few decades, but I actually started to build and today, my team across the world, it’s we have around 100 People from Indonesia to Colombia, everyday waking up to really help to build that more open world. And it started from from Portsmouth, New Hampshire.


      Karan Rhodes  06:43

      New Hampshire, that is amazing. And now we share where you’re located now.


      Karoli Hindriks  06:47

      I’m actually at this moment in New York City. So might you ask my home address, it’s mostly on an airplane. But currently, I’m sitting in New York City


      Karan Rhodes  06:58

      That is great.


      Karoli Hindriks  06:59

      It’s sunny, sunny in New York today. So


      Karan Rhodes  07:01

      Listeners you don’t know this. But when we were trying to get on Kelly’s Busy, busy schedule, even she is actually more time has been in Europe, and she had just happened to be in New York City today. And they were like, cool, this will be a great time for a timezone purposes. And so we grabbed her when we could so thank you for your flexibility. Karoli, we really appreciate it.


      Karoli Hindriks  07:25

      Happy to be here.


      Karan Rhodes  07:27

      All right. Well, let’s dig into the the good stuff. So let’s talk about the Jobbatical and their origins of it. And then what made you pivot to what it is today?


      Karoli Hindriks  07:40

      Yes. So it’s funny, because the whole, like the mission and the passion started from the United States, and also the dramatical ideas started. So why I founded Jobbatical, I was actually, I was lucky to get into a think tank called Singularity University, which so which was a NASA Ames Research Center in Mountain View. And so I spent the summer there in amazing think tank, a lot of smart people. And because I’m a runner, so I like to run in the morning. So every time I had to run out of NASA, go to the seaside, but on the way I have keugle. So I, you know, and I mean, the mornings, you smell the pastries of good coming. And I thought, Oh, my God, this is keugle. And then I started the why are the keugle of the world here, like what’s up with this place, that amazing companies that change industries come from here. And I started to look into it. And what I discovered was that it’s not that people are just born smarter there is that smart people circled the globe to get there, and then help to build those companies. Coming from tiny corner of the world country, I started to ask and having been an entrepreneur for a while, what do we need to do to inspire those people who are ready to circle the globe? Instead of going to Silicon Valley, how to get them to Helsinki, Stockholm, Hamburg, Madrid, like, so they would discover the founders in those places, and could merge their travel dreams with their work. So we started as a my thesis was that let’s collect those people and create a community and then start to show them. Founders teams in far flung cities of the world. So we actually were a cross border recruiting platform, initial recruitment, and we had, exactly yes, so we had people fired from 53 countries to 37 countries, but you know, what happened? Like a true startup? Sorry. So we built this we actually had before the pivot, we had half a million users. So their business was pretty, I mean, we had built an amazing thing. But what we learned was that our clients now you have been in HSBC, you have seen visa processes. So our clients started saying that, okay, I hired this amazing person who, you know, flew in from Sydney, Australia, who needs to fly in from Sydney, Australia, but how do I get that person to my country? So we started as a side business, we started had to support the whole hideous visa and relocation part. And what happened was that we learned through our clients that their biggest problem in international hiring was not finding those people, it was actually getting them into the country. So 2019, it was basically, we had raised by that time $8 million, of which 6 million we had put into building this recruiting platform. So it was a big decision. But it was clear that this part, like the actual pain was for our clients was, was in that in the visa immigration relocation part. So we completely set aside when we had built started from scratch, and today, and that was the best decision for the company today, we are already covering over 30 countries. And we have built a platform, which is by far, like the best in terms of the product and experience in our market. So it was a big leap that we took, I must say, Karan, that board meeting was very fun when I said told my investors that, you know, we are going to set aside what we have built thus far and start to build a new thing. But today, everybody sees that it was the right decision. So so that was the that story.


      Karan Rhodes  11:13

      No,, no, no, you’re good. I’m just a quick question there. I’m curious about the conversation with your board. And that, why didn’t you do both? Or do and I guess the question is, why didn’t you try to do both? Did you find out that it was better to niche down into this new area where you knew there was demand versus trying to offer too big offering? I’m just curious about that.


      Karoli Hindriks  11:39

      That’s a very good question on To be honest, my management team, because everybody we saw, you know, we saw that there was something there, everybody. So not only we like we saw, but my management team. Also the everybody thought that no, let’s do both. Let’s just put a little bit more money to into this new thing. But let’s do both. There’s the rules with startup is that you need to have two things. Product Market Fit, and focus. Yeah. So I told my team that, however painful it is. And it was painful, because we actually said we were sending away clients, we had contracts lined up, we said no, we’re not going to take that money because we need to focus. The thing is that we would have done both, I would not be having this conversation with you right now. So we I told my team that this is all in like, we have this chance of funds that we had raised back then. So to buy today were raised over 20 million. But back then we had 2 million left, I said we’re going to use this to build as much as we can to prove our product market fit. And we’re going to do all in because it’s our only chance we can do both. And that was it.


      Karan Rhodes  12:47

      So the lesson listeners for you can learn from Karoli there is on her team is there are times when it may make sense to scale into new offerings. But there are other times when it may make sense to double down and focus on a particular area, but especially based on the resources and support that you are have, whether you’re employed at a business, or you own a business or founder yourself. So the critical thing is to make the right decision for you all, use those strategic decision making capabilities with all your key stakeholders so that you will make the right choice for you. Do you agree Karoli?


      Karoli Hindriks  13:27

      I agree, and I think maybe one of the things. So what I also told the team, I told also the board back then, was that what we saw. So with the recruitment platform, it was a nice to have and honestly, our users loved us so much that they say that, you know, I pour a glass of wine in the evening and start to dream where I could work, right? So when I sent out to this message that we’re going to shut that down. It was a very teary, a lot of teary emails, but there was a one significant difference between those two. And so it was a nice to have platform. So companies and our clients could fire but nothing really happened if they didn’t find like they would use another platform. So it was a vitamin, but with the other which was the visa immigration relocation. Here. We were a painkiller. That was a big pain that they had. And as a startup, you want to be a painkiller. So I think that’s also something to remember that you want to be the painkiller for your client, that’s when it gets especially sticky.


      Karan Rhodes  14:27

      Absolutely. So also, so let’s go deeper into what Jobbatical actually does, like, how do you kill that pain and make the relocation easier for your client? How does it work?


      Karoli Hindriks  14:44

      Yes. So basically, how does it work is now if you think about you just recently had a discussion with an immigration lawyer. So how does it work on a usual case is that you the case comes in, lawyer looks at their screen looks that this is the passport, this is the position, this is the country that the person is now going to move to and make a lot of decisions in the head. So for us, we have put those decisions into the system. So when a case comes in, it’s a lawyer who sets up the platform the lawyer is, in each country we operate, the most important person is our immigration lawyer, who makes sure that the decision trees are rightly set up. But now the decisions are made by the system. Now let’s, let’s move further and let now you have you know, the person will start to you we will use you as a client, you just put the information about, or your HR system sends it directly to our platform, because we have integrations, the information okay, this is we are initiating this relocation, now we get the information, we will invite that person who is going to start their move to our platform. And when they no usual case are the documents are gathered via email, a lot of forms are filled. So now we have automated all of that. So we gather, so the talent uploads the information and documents once. And then our smart system takes that information and populates to all the different forms. So again, something that we actually calculated, you know, how much time if you put all together how much time every year that people spend in the United States on work, basically, work permits related people,


      Karan Rhodes  16:24

      How much time 600 years? Are you serious?


      Karoli Hindriks  16:32

      It’s actually it was a 599. But let’s say 600. But so imagine what people could be doing with that time. And I think there’s another element is that as we are now, this is, so the automation is helping also to reduce the mistakes. Because if you manually I mean, as humans, we make mistakes, if you have all those forms to fill, and you do it manually, if you miss something, then the application is sent, there’s an error, it comes back, the whole process is delayed, so but our system is able to significantly reduce the number of errors, which means the process also goes significantly faster, because there are no mistakes. So basically, what we do is that we kind of we take the whole process of getting the person legally working in the country, off the table of the HR.


      Karan Rhodes  17:21

      Now that makes a lot of sense. I’m gonna ask a particularly US centric question. So please forgive me for this. Because I know it’s different in every country. And I’ve led global teams, I know that but in the US in particular, if you make a mistake, and you don’t catch it, it’s almost like your application goes back to the bottom of the stack. I mean, they process the and then now they’ve introduced the lottery concept. So how does your platform deal with these new requirements? Every couple of years, you know that the government puts out there? How do you guide your clients do that?


      Karoli Hindriks  18:01

      Okay, yeah, yes. So basically, that’s why in each country where we operate, including the United States, the most important person is we have immigration lawyer who is leading the platform. But the thing is that usually the lawyer that’s where why it’s so expensive, as well, it’s the lawyer who is processing to take with us, the lawyer is making sure that all the processes are correctly set. If there’s any adjustment from the government side, we will adjust the decision tree, right. So basically, we cannot change policy. So that part, and we can talk about that. And I think there’s if you think about where we are right now, as humanity, you know, that we are in the biggest talent shortage in human history. And then the numbers. Also in the United States, we see that markets are hard the same time, we have the lowest unemployment rate, I think in history right now. So because of the shortage of skilled workers, right. So which means that this is my passion topic that each country should be making their efforts, attracting and getting people in yet a lot of countries, including the United States, has made it quite difficult. So we cannot change the policy. But what we can do is we are using the AI automation in order to make it every step before it reaches the government as accurate as fast as and also as low in terms of resources, because like, by removing so much paper from the table, we’re actually helping the environment as well. So did that answer your question?


      Karan Rhodes  19:29

      And I’ll just say for all my leaders out there, especially those HR and business leaders, and that’s where the most of our listeners are from if you all don’t have Karoli and her Jobbatical team on speed dial you know, you’re missing out because you all know it’s very, not only is there a huge talent shortage, but it’s very, very complicated to manage all of this and it’s almost a full time job within itself. And very few companies have an individual themselves who’s focused on visa and immigration and relocation issues. So currently now once somebody they all the paperwork goes through and they kind of get approval for the local country, do you have additional partners that help them in the resettling process? Yeah,


      Karoli Hindriks  20:16

      Settling process? Exactly. Good question. So we do we, and again, there’s, we plug in vendors and partners who helped with the rest of them. So is it a bank account opening is it finding apartment, all of that, so we plug them into our platform. And again, our aim is to have an experience where the talent, give us the information once. And then we can also populate that to our vendors. So it’s, you know, that you don’t need to go out to another partner, and then start filling yet another form. But this information moves between platforms. So this is basically so we also help with settling. Currently Not in all states in the United States. But in the most where we see like where most relocations are, there, we are covered.


      Karan Rhodes  21:02

      I interacted, I used to work with Microsoft before I founded my own firm as well. And I used to work with the company that helped it was kind of the last mile, if you will, there was another company that did something similar to you. But it was manual, they didn’t have a platform or no AI or anything like that. But they had what they call city partners, where there was someone you know, in the major cities like Palo Alto, or Atlanta or New York or Chicago, where if a family was going there, they would have, they would kind of be the face of the city like for the first couple of weeks to help them, point them in the right direction and get settled. Like yeah, so I don’t know if that’s something you all do as well. But that might be an additional add on in the future.


      Karoli Hindriks  21:45

      A really cool idea, I will share with the team.


      Karan Rhodes  21:50

      So what, you know, although this is a fantastic service, I’m sure there were additional obstacles along the way, as you all pivoted. And we learn a lot from missteps as well. So if you don’t mind, can you share one as a hiccup or a misstep or one thing that you all your team had to rethink as you were growing into what you are today.


      Karoli Hindriks  22:17

      Maybe I will even take a step back. And I think what came to my head is where I as a leader had to change. And I think that it was a such a learning story. For me. And I think it was the year before we pivot to we had our first there’s still quite a small startup. And we had our first HR person made the team who then did anonymous surveys first time, right, you know, the regular stuff, right? And one of the questions that she asked most with whom you have hard time working with. And can you imagine, Karan, a lot of people said it was me.


      Karan Rhodes  22:50

      Really? How did that make?


      Karoli Hindriks  22:54

      That? Yeah, I actually have goose bumps right now that that was a tough moment. And I mean, as a leader, I, I could have just gotten angry, right? But instead, I really tried to understand why. So what is that? And I what I realized it was a very simple thing. So you know, I had started as an entrepreneur when I was 16. So I had been doing things alone for a long time. And I kind of doing with your heart and always hands on right, which kind of meant I was hands on everything. And everyone and I was micromanaging everything and everyone. And it wasn’t because of it was actually from a client place. But and I didn’t realize I was doing it. But it was a very bad habit. And so I stood in front of the team. And I said, I now understand, first of all, thank you for your feedback, because that helped me see something that I did not even know. And and I said that I told them that bad habits, you know, cannot change them overnight. So what I need is you giving me very blunt feedback every day for me to be able to start seeing my How to say blind spots, right. And I think that was, in that sense, transformational that, from that change started, it changed a lot as a leader. But as organization, we became like very feedback oriented. So today when new people join, I always say that if there’s one thing I hope you will get and take away from our company, when you go to your next journey is the ability to receive and give feedback. Because I truly now today having seen the growth personally and as an organization, I think it’s just when we are able to give and receive feedback, we are able to grow as humans and if we are able to grow as humans we can grow as an organization. And that came from that anonymous survey and the very shocking answer that I got from the team regarding how hard it was to work with me back then.


      Karan Rhodes  24:47

      But look how you turn that around though, you you know, we’re you could have been very dismissive, but you were at least very open to the perspectives and feedback and we’re all in and trying to understand how to turn that around, and I’m sure you gain a lot of trust from your staff by doing that over time.


      Karoli Hindriks  25:09

      Definitely. And I think that to help those who go through because I mean, just go to the low points, then we pivoted in 2019 summer. what happened eight months later, the world went into lockdown. And the whole business was about moving people across borders. So that was a very, very tough year, but we made some of the best product decisions. Thanks to that. So I like to say that everything is for growth, even the lowest moments, usually you will understand later white, you needed to have those. But I think the feedback culture and the trust that came out of it was very much the basis of getting through those lower times.


      Karan Rhodes  25:47

      So how did you? So that’s brings up a good point. So share a little bit about that journey during the pandemic I met, it’s great that you used it to double down on your platform development. But did revenues drop during the pandemic, and how did you stay alive


      Karoli Hindriks  26:04

      live? Yeah, it’s. So that is an amazing story. And I think one of the things that people don’t generally know, because from the media, we, we heard that everything was closed down. But most countries actually for employment related moves they were opened. So they opened already from May. So for two months, it was complete a complete freeze. So they were shocked, we were all in a very big shock. But from May, countries actually started to fund employment related to airplanes were very empty. But there were actually people moving. But I do remember the 2020 board meeting where my board member mentor, Alec Ross, who was formerly Hillary Clinton’s innovation advisor, and great friends and mentor for me over the journey of Jobbatical, he said, like, golden words, you said at the board meeting, but the fact that Jobbatical survived, or basically said, didn’t die, and actually kept on growing is a sign of a bigger trend, that even the global lock downs didn’t really stop. So I think it goes back to the same talent shortage, like it’s just, you know, the numbers are. So right now the forecast is that by 2030, the talent shortage will cost governments and companies around the world $8.5 trillion and trillion, I had to actually look up how many zeros is trillion and is 12. So it’s a lot of money.


      Karan Rhodes  27:31

      Lots of money. Oh, that is amazing, amazing. So you know, one of the things I always love to ask our guests on the show, is, you know, I wrote a book on leadership execution. And we talked about the tactics that the most successful leaders around the world always use. And you were kind enough to share, the one that really stood out for you was leading with courageous agility. And for my new listeners on courageous agility is all about having the courage and fortitude to do what you think is right, even if the feature is unclear. So you know, you take all the data and knowledge that you know about, and use it in making an informed decision. But you do take that first step forward. And so I’m just curious of why that tactic really resonated with you.


      Karoli Hindriks  28:22

      Yes, so I think the many. So if I look back, for example, I mean, we talked about pivot already, but I actually will, will take us back to the 2020 spring, because 2020 Spring, remember. So, I mean, this was a shock for the role for us. And everybody around me, including my management team, told that we should cut basically, to layoffs, like everybody was doing layoffs, we should do the same. And I think sometimes it is a lonely place to be to be the CEO. And sometimes we are especially now me and I remember that time, my thinking was that we had we pivoted we have this one chance, we have this all and if I cut and we would have cut all the new markets, right? If I cut the new markets right now, it will mean that we will stay alive a bit longer, but any possibility of growth will go away. Right. So I went against the board against my management team. And when actually said that we shouldn’t do we did a salary cut instead across the organization. I explained also to the team, the choices that I had, and what the choice that I made and why I made that choice. And thanks to that, I’m sitting here. Why are those two that we saw last year at eight times? MRR growth, I mean, it was insanely, it would have never been possible. So I think it’s like and that’s the hardest part of being the leader. Right? That it’s you hire smart people and my smart people were back then and are also today very smart. But sometimes you need to trust your gut, and my gut told me that If we cut people today, we will be a walking dead. But I want to that one shot that we have, I want to basically do the all in. And let’s take that risk wherever it takes any paid off. So I think this is why I chose, I think this is the type of leadership that I like to follow. It’s hard to follow sometimes. But when it pays off, it’s very. huge. It’s huge, yes.


      Karan Rhodes  30:30

      So…and this is…it may be a little unorthodox, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna ask it anyway, because I love to see what it takes to impress you. So what I want you to do is think about either a person or company, it could be anybody can be your, your mom above the person that are alive, or it can be a company’s brand, whether it’s global or local. But think about some entity person or business that is a true leader in their space that has impressed you. If you name an example of one, what would that be? And why?


      Karoli Hindriks  31:11

      That’s a really hard one because there are so many nuts because they are there are so many amazing people in the world


      Karan Rhodes  31:19

      Is anyone maybe a co worker? I don’t know. I just wanted it who has differentiated themselves in your mind as a great leader.


      Karoli Hindriks  31:30

      I think in that sense, it’s so again, there are amazing, great companies and maybe it’s also connected how I listen to his conversations in the time where I needed to. But I, I have been really a fan of Airbnb founder Brian Chesky. Like I think, I think our missions are very aligned, the way we are navigating the way and I think I actually remember that listen to Brian Chesky and Reid Hoffman’s conversation, like two or three years too late, because otherwise, I would not have failed. So for genetical first version, because that’s, I remember when he said that. So first, you shouldn’t build an idea. But the thing should not should be should not scale at the beginning, but it should work in an Excel sheet. And if and so first (unknow) was from my idea, second (unknown) was an Excel sheet that was already unmanageable because the demand was so high, right? So I and I think with Brian, I followed him over the years, I think he’s inspired me a lot. I like how he’s really taking. He’s kind of walking the walk, like now, you know, working from living and working from one Airbnb to another to really get the customer experience. And so I really admire him. So, again, there are great people, but I think that’s popped up right now in my head, and I think he’s a great leader that I do, truly.


      Karan Rhodes  33:01

      Okay, yes, I’m a fan as well. You’re spot on with that. And I listen on my podcast, listen, I don’t go running, I go speed walking. That’s about all I can do as best I can do but I listen to Reid Hoffman’s a Masters of Scale podcast. Yeah. I just absolutely love how he pulls out. I think leader Airbnb was on there as well. But he has all these leaders and I love hearing about their perspectives on how they think about, like growth. And that is make it simple. You know, they they break it down for you and make it simple. So yeah, I agree.


      Karoli Hindriks  33:39

      I think that most even if I’m not mistaken that Brian Chesky conversation that I was referencing to was Masters of Scale first episode. I think it was the very first day I think it was the very first episode. I might be mistaking, but he was I somehow have this memory that it was the very first episode, but I just listened to it a bit too late. So I already so anyway, I agree with him. And I agree with you completely. It’s a great podcast.


      Karan Rhodes  34:08

      It is. All right. Well, my final question for you, Ms. Karoli… for you. What does it take for you to lead at the top of your game? What do you always try to make sure that you do?


      Karoli Hindriks  34:20

      And that’s a good question. And I must say it’s I would have answered completely differently four years ago. And I think today one of the things that I’ve learned over the past especially the past four years since I started actually to work with an executive coach. This is something I really recommend to CEOs. And he said basically, I started to take care of myself I started to schedule myself. When I wake up in the morning I used to open a computer, emails, calls, go crazy. But now in the morning, I start my day with meditation. I do my exercise I do my run and then I have a crazy thing I do in the mornings in know when I’m there northern in Northern Europe. I do The Arctic swimming. So I go swimming going, it’s also minus 15. Outside, right? So I do all those things that by the time when I’m starting my day, I feel amazing. And I think, to be honest, this is something we leaders tend to forget, because we think we’re so busy. But the thing is that if you don’t schedule yourself, how can you like if you don’t take care of yourself? How can you take care of your team? So really scheduling yourself into your calendar, and taking care of yourself? That’s something that I think only then you can be the best version of yourself as a leader. And as a human.


      Karan Rhodes  35:36

      I agree. I agree totally. And we just recently had the last podcast episode I recorded it was a gentleman who splits his time from between Australia and San Francisco. And he does the same thing he always does look at the cold morning swimming, you know, going in there when it’s very, very cold swimming around and in jumping out, he’s that that just rejuvenates him and get some focused for the day. All right, well, we have taken way over your time, but I want to make don’t want to leave before you let our listeners know where to find both you and the company will have it in the show notes. But I want you to share as well how can they get in touch with you all if they want more information.


      Karoli Hindriks  36:24

      So you can go to to Jobbatical so for me, I am on every platform. I’m not on tick tock, my daughter is on tick tock, my I’m not gonna tick tock. Every other platform you will find me Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, feel free to follow contact via their is where you can find my company. And so if if there’s any questions or advice that you need, and I’m open to share a set, I’ve been an entrepreneur since I was 16. A lot of mistakes have been made. And that have taught give a given valuable lesson. So


      Karan Rhodes  37:00

      So knowing that you’re only 21. Now how many mistakes could you have had, right? Well, thank you so much Karoli for joining this episode. I really appreciate your time.


      Karoli Hindriks  37:15

      Thank you Karan.


      Karan Rhodes  37:17

      All right, leaders. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this fantastic episode with Miss Karoli Hindriks. Links to all of her contact information will be in our show notes. So be sure to stay and check those out. as well. As you know, I always only ask one favor that is to like and subscribe to the podcast, and to share with just one friend, because that will help us extend our reach and build stronger leaders who are leading at the top of their game across the globe. Thank you so much and see you next week. Bye. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Karoli Hindriks, founder and CEO of Jobbatical links to her bio her interior interior leadership playbook and additional resources can be found in the show notes that are both on your favorite podcast platform of choice and on the web at And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of global talent pools. I just wanted to take a quick opportunity to to highlight two of the leadership tactics from my research, which I really think would help you excel as a leader when navigating adding global talent to your workforce. The first one involves being skilled at leading with intrapreneurship. Leading with intrapreneurship will allow you to more critically evaluate whether Why do you mean your talent pool globally will grow your organization in a good way and better improve operations. It will also help you answer the question will be increased access to hard to find skills help improve our competitiveness in today’s markets and industries. And no matter if the answer to that question is yes or no, you will have a very persuasive justification either way to share with your executive team and key decision makers. The second tactic I wanted to highlight is leading with stakeholders savvy. And leading with stakeholders happy will make or break how successful your global talent is assimilated as part of your team. It will help you both celebrate any similarities and deeply understand any differences due to cultural norms. Now in the shownotes. I’ll include links to more information about each of these tactics and what you can do to begin sharpening your ability to execute them. And while you’re there, you might as well check out all seven tactics and get a lot more familiar with them. And if you or your team wants to be trained up on them, feel free to reach out via the contact form on the website or direct message me on any of the social media platforms. Thanks so much for hanging in there to listen to this portion of Karan’s take on a podcast. And if I haven’t mentioned it already, just know I appreciate you for being a member of our podcast family. Also, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast and just share with just one friend, because performing this one selfless act let empower you to help others to also lead at the top of their game. Thanks so much for listening and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.

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