Episode 30 | Journey of a Trailblazer in Influencing Marketing for Corporations with Danica Kombol

Danica Kombol  00:00

Obama had just been elected. Social media was the buzzword on everybody’s lips and all the clients were coming in and saying, “Hey, we want that thing. We want that thing that got Obama elected. What is that thing social media.”

Voiceover  00:17

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:52

Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to today’s episode. You know influencer marketing is as common a part of our lives these days as drinking water. But believe it or not, not too long ago, corporations were very new to the scene and using influencers to really boost their brands and their bottom line. Our guest today is one of the early trailblazers who helped corporations integrate influencer marketing into their larger marketing strategies. Danika Kombol is the former founder of the Everwhere Agency, which is an influencer marketing and digital media agency. Danica had a successful exit when she sold her agency to a larger firm, and is now a partner consultant with the Chameleon Collective. And the chameleon Collective is an organization that matches senior marketing leaders with businesses looking to scale. She’s gonna share with us her journey from a career in media to founding her own influencer marketing agency, and she’s going to share the leadership lessons that she learned along the way. Now, be sure to stay tuned for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s take, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to today’s episode. I am over the moon thrilled to have our guests on today’s show. She is not only a superstar businesswoman, but she’s also a very dear friend. On today’s show, we have Miss Danica Kombol, who actually is the founder of a digital marketing agency and a social influencer agency called everywhere. And I’m gonna let her tell about that everywhere agency. But she’s has a long history in social influencer marketing. She is now she has sold that businesses she’s gonna tell that story, but then she is now a consultant with a company called Chameleon Collective and I’m gonna let her explain that as well. But welcome to the show, Danica.

Danica Kombol  03:04

Oh, I’m so glad to be here. Always inspiring to be around you, Karan.

Karan Rhodes  03:08

Oh, it’s more inspiring to be around you, my dear. Well, before we dive deep into your professional background, why don’t you tell us a little bit about kind of where you grew up, or in your personal life in journey this far?

Danica Kombol  03:23

Oh, my goodness, well, I am the child of entrepreneurs. So after dinner every night, my mom would get out the big, you know, with a punch calculator, and she’d be punching numbers. And, you know, some nights would be good, and some nights wouldn’t be good and just kind of stay away from the kitchen. But I think if you are the child of entrepreneurs, you either leave that home with a good sense of risk tolerance, or you decide, no, I need to know my paychecks come in every other week. And so when I did start my own business, I did have that memory of what it was like, you know, both my parents were in business together. And sometimes it was scrappy, and sometimes it was good and just kind of seeing that journey and seeing their joy when things worked out well, and how my family benefited when they worked out well. So I kind of feel like I’ve got entrepreneurism in my life in my blood. So I did plenty of corporate jobs to you know, I started out working in television, my earliest job was working on Sesame Street. And then I went on to work at SNL, Saturday Night Lve or working comedy. And when my husband and I moved here to Atlanta, because he got a job at CNN, the television world really wasn’t that robust, then I was like, What do I do next? And that’s when I jumped into marketing so

Karan Rhodes  04:40

Amazing, amazing. And I know you’ve told me this story before but I’d love for you to share with your listeners how you really got curious about influencer marketing and digital marketing and how did you like plant your flag your professional flag in that industry?

Danica Kombol  05:00

A True Story. It’s probably not as glamorous as one hopes. I would like to say I had the vision. But the truth is, I think and this will resonate with many of your listeners sometimes necessity is the motherhood of invention, right? So I was working with one of the largest PR firms in the world. 2008. Financial crisis, I was a relatively new hire, I was pretty aged. And I was like, Okay, I’m gonna get my pink slip pretty soon, anyway, but I was there. At that time, Obama had just been elected, social media was the buzzword on everybody’s lips. And all the clients were coming in and saying, Hey, we want that thing. We want that thing that got Obama elected. What is that thing social media. And I looked around second largest PR firm in the world, they had two people on staff that did social, because remember public relations media, they were used to an old school social media with political, what’s Twitter going to do for us? And so when I got laid off, I thought, I’m going to do that social media thing. So first, I had to learn it. And then I had to find the clients. But the truth is, it was 2009. And I wasn’t gonna get a job at that point, you know?

Karan Rhodes  06:15

And how did you go about learning it? Because back then it wasn’t, as you know, in our lives, that integral in our lives as it is now, How’d you learn it? You have a mentor? Or did you

Danica Kombol  06:29

Erica Hartfield, my first employee, she was two years out of Georgia Tech. And I started my business in the basement. And I remember just sitting with her like, okay, that’s how you do it. So, which is why I always say to leaders, when you’re seeking mentorship, it doesn’t always come from above, it can also come from

Karan Rhodes  06:47

Below as well. Yeah. And so tell us about how you kind of grew your business and how you establish the business and what it was like to be a leader and founder and a very new, relatively new at the time, industry?

Danica Kombol  07:02

Well, so I probably skipped a couple of steps. So my field was really influencer marketing, which was working with social influencers. So for me, it was really in terms of building the business. Obviously, leaders have to understand business doesn’t come to you who have to go out and get it. And I am by nature, a worker bee, give me a project. Okay, here’s my checklist, right? Love me a checklist, right? But business doesn’t come for you, to you. And business development isn’t necessarily a checklist type thing. Business developed, it is out there integrating in the community, it’s selling yourself, I will definitely say I wasn’t that comfortable with selling myself at first. And I had to learn how to overcome it. But it was an exciting time in the industry. Again, the big agencies were doing it I was really I guess you could say was at the forefront of it. I saw the potential for brands because for me influencer marketing was just an extension of what we used to call word of mouth marketing. So to me the best influencer marketing is hearing somebody talk naturally, a brand or product that they love. That’s what it was 10 years ago, its sense kind of morphed into something I probably don’t admire as much. But at the beginning, it was pretty exciting. So I’m a person who’s hungry for knowledge. It was really exciting to learn, I learned about influencer marketing from the influencers themselves. I had to listen very closely to my clients see how influencers could fit their need. But then I had to introduce an entirely new marketing product that they’ve never used before. So there was a lot of skepticism. So part of being an entrepreneur is not just having a good idea, it’s being able to sell that idea.

Karan Rhodes  08:46

Right, right. And I know you had a very interesting but dynamic team that helped drive the business. What did what did you learn from them?

Danica Kombol  08:57

Okay, so first off, I was a woman owned business, and not intentionally, but most of my best hires were women. So I had primarily a women team. And also the talent that was best for me in terms of hiring was technically a relatively junior talent, particularly in the early in the early days of my business, because they were using search. They were heavy social media users, they understood the power of influence. They had the energy and enthusiasm about social media, they understood the immediacy of it. So my best hires were what you would consider relatively young, maybe not as seasoned. And what I realized was that my management style did not jive with what they needed to be well managed. Um, well, first of all, first off, I was trained in a management style, a completely different management style, one that didn’t really resonate

Karan Rhodes  09:56

Like old school, corporate?

Danica Kombol  09:57

Old school corporate, you know, “Oh, my way or the highway, follow my regulations,” I don’t think I was my way or the highway. But we were kind of like, give your mandates get it done, that style didn’t work. So I really felt like I learned from them, how to better manage them. And I also sought outside kind of support and training from folks like you in terms of really kind of understanding the demographic, but I had to transition my leadership style. Now, mind you, my staff were primarily Millennial and Gen Z, my kids were also Millennial and Gen Z. So I was getting a lot of this from them. And when I got this from them, I was like, Well, let me tell you about something I did the other day at the office and they’d go “Mom!!” So I use both my kids and my staff to kind of help me have a more collaborative style of leadership. One of the complaints that people often say about millennials, and Gen Z, is, “They come in and they think they can be boss.” And I thought, Okay, let me just think about that. I have employees that care so much about their line of work, that they want to own it, and they want to be boss, that’s not a bad thing Is it?

Karan Rhodes  11:12

Not at all? Talk about employee motivation?

Danica Kombol  11:16

Yeah. And also like, okay, so how do I get out of their way, so that they can have the ownership. And it really just flipped everything on the end. So we began focusing more on processes and systems rather than kind of top down management values, that kind of thing.

Karan Rhodes  11:35

And, you know, those of us who are on our own businesses, or founders of our own business, you know, it’s definitely not for the faint of heart, obviously. But, you know, what advice do you have to others that are considering, you know, hanging out their shingle in the sense of, what kind of mindset should you have to get ready to lead a business when you’re creating it yourself.

Danica Kombol  11:59

So I personally think the most important thing to dig deep on is your risk tolerance, okay, be as an entrepreneur, you have to have a certain level of risk. And a lot of that risk has to come comes with the almighty paycheck. So if you’ve been in the corporate world for a long time, you’re used to some pretty regular things, regular paycheck used to IT, hopefully taking care of your stuff, and you’re used to health insurance. Now, suddenly, when you are an entrepreneur, you don’t have anybody taking care of IT for you, you have anybody taking care of your health insurance, and you aren’t getting a steady paycheck. And there are very, very few businesses that start with an immediate paycheck coming in. So your risk tolerance really has to be around. It’s both a logical thing, how long can I go without receiving a paycheck? That’s just a flat out fact. And then what will be what will I feel like at night? I’ve billed my client, and then lost the invoice. And then there’s also sorry, well, we’ll get to that, but it’s going to be another six weeks before your payed. How’s it going to make you feel? Are you going to be up all night? Are you going to be sweating it? Because if so, it might not be the business for you.

Karan Rhodes  13:12

That is true, because that’s a very normal type of situation that founders face because clients pay at different rates, some pay right on time, a couple pay early, but most kind of play with that window, right?

Danica Kombol  13:27

The bigger the client, the longer the payment schedule. Those fortune 500 clients have negotiated into the Statement of Work with your your Master Service Agreement, that it might be a six weeks or two month period before they pay you. So you did the work. You completed the work and you’re waiting for two months. Do you have the capital to float it? So all of those things, capital will flow, risk tolerance. What do you do if a client walks out the door, a main client walks out the door?

Karan Rhodes  13:56

And how do you cover it? And it’s one thing I mean, it’s just you right? But when you have staff working for you, and they needed to, you know, pay their bills, too. You can’t ask them to wait two months to get paid, right?

Danica Kombol  14:09

You can’t ask them to wait. But I’ll be honest with you, that inspired me and powered me because I knew I had people who were dependent upon me, not just for their livelihood, but it was a stepping stone in their career. So with the young talent I had, many of them would be with me two to three years and go. Totally understandable. I was a small agency. Their growth potential with me, given their smarts outweighed it. So I really had a policy with my team. I said, you might grow out of this job, and I don’t want you to feel bad about it. But when that happens, let’s work together to get you your next position. You don’t need to scurry out the door. A, that provided me an opportunity to like get prepared because Julie over there might be just kind of think of anything helps. And then secondly, I felt real pride in seeing the young women that I worked for go on to Delta, Home Depot, a lot of big agencies and just, you know,

Karan Rhodes  15:08

that’s what I love, I love when I’m, you know, coaching or mentoring someone and seeing them get to their next level of success. I mean, I know I’m in the background, but in some way I’m celebrating with them, like toasting them with the virtual glasses. Sorry, May.

Danica Kombol  15:25

I mean, it’d be different if agency was a large corporation, because if you’re mentoring somebody with a large corporation, you can always kind of help them, you could see the stepping stones, but again, I was still what is considered a boutique agency. So I had roughly, you know, three to four tiers of leadership. So you get to one or two and three to four were already taken. Where do you go?

Karan Rhodes  15:45

Where do you go from there? Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, because I have the luxury of knowing you fairly well. And one of the things I always ask on the podcast is like, which of the tactics, leadership tactics that I write about in my book really, really resonated with you, but I wanted to highlight one in particular, because I think you’re excellent at it. And that is leading with stakeholder savvy, you are excellent about meeting individuals, really understanding their perspectives, making a connection and making a friend for life out of a stranger. And it’s not always easy for people to do that. But you have such a unique knack in doing that. I wanted to highlight that. And I wanted you to share, how do you think about approaching people when you you know, you spoke at numerous conferences, including South by Southwest, which is coveted. But how do you think about it as it relates to people and building your network? Because you have a huge network?

Danica Kombol  16:48

Well, maybe we could talk about stakeholder and client, but also stakeholder and colleague.

Karan Rhodes  16:55

Okay, yeah, let’s do that.

Danica Kombol  16:57

Because both are really, really important to me. And I think a lot of it has to do, we spend how many hours a day in work? Right? A lot. It’s, we spend many, many of our day at work. So to me, why not enjoy your colleagues, why not enjoy the people you work with? My clients really entrusted me with solving problems. And so I view that as we’re partners in success, and it’s hard to be a partner with somebody without developing some kind of rapport. So it’s funny, I’m now a member of Chameleon Collective, which is wonderful collective consortium. And the person who recommended it to me was my old client from Macy’s, Holly Thomas, who I worked with for 10 years. And, you know, over 10 years, I mean, she had her requests of me, her demands of me, I worked for her, but we also were partners in success. So those relationships, live on. Your co workers too, you know, you don’t always love your co workers, but you’re gonna have to partner with that. So for me, always finding some common ground so that the dialogue was always open and then with finding common ground isn’t as a personal investment,

Karan Rhodes  18:12

It definitely is. You’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely right.

Danica Kombol  18:15

And every single person on the team, whether they’re a strong player, or weak player, you have something to learn from them.

Karan Rhodes  18:21

Oh, always, you can always learn a nugget or two from from other people. I still do to this day. I think that’s one reason I love being a podcast host is because I learned so much from our guests. It’s amazing what nuggets you can get in less than 30 minutes, right?

Danica Kombol  18:37

Well, I’ve learned a lot from you. So

Karan Rhodes  18:39

Oh, that’s a sweet of you to say.

Danica Kombol  18:43

Your voice is in my head.

Karan Rhodes  18:45

I’m so Danica, share what you’re doing at Chameleon Collective. What is that all about?  Oh, yeah,, it’s kind of it’s actually kind of the perfect next step for me, because I really wanted to consult but I don’t love working in a vacuum. I’m not a good solo player. I really bounce off other people. So Chameleon Collective is a collective of about 100 Plus really, excuse my French, badass marketing folks. All across the marketing spectrum, SEO, web, digital, blah, blah, blah. And we all kind of bring our projects into the collective either work together on some of them, we work solo on them, but it’s kind of like an opportunity to have partners in your consulting work. So so much of what I do in marketing is never just one area. So say a client comes to me and says, I’d need help with this aspect of marketing. Okay, that piece I know about, but then they say I need help with SEO. Oh, I can’t help with that. But I’ve got a partner in the collective I can bring in. So it’s kind of a group setting for consulting that really works well for me and they’ve got all the infrastructure in the back end and That’s worth its weight in gold right. they’re just having that.

Danica Kombol  20:03

I know!  All the invoicing taken care of. But really just because marketing today is so unbelievably complex, having experts in 10 different fields or let’s say, I’m writing something and I need a copywriter, there’s the copywriter.

Karan Rhodes  20:23

Yeah. What’s some of the hot trends in marketing right now?

Danica Kombol  20:26

Gosh, well, are we going to talk of maybe we shouldn’t say Hot Trends, but hot bed trends is, obviously tick tock has been a lot in the news.

Karan Rhodes  20:37

Oh, yeah, there’s been a lot in the news. Yeah,

Danica Kombol  20:39

You know, what’s going to happen with tick tock, I think the trend we’re really seeing in marketing, more and more is just much more of a 360 marketing approach, an integrated marketing approach, you know, marketing use, everybody used to have their own little fiefdom. So PR was here, and marketing was here, and digital was over here. And now they’re all working together in a concerted effort towards campaigns, and it’s those 360 campaigns that I thrive on, that I find most inspiring,

Karan Rhodes  21:11

And tell the audience members, what is a 360? campaign? I know, but I want you to share.

Danica Kombol  21:17

Oh, thank you. Okay. So a 360 marketing campaign really means I’m going to look with the left hand is doing and the right hand is doing, even though we might be playing on different mediums. So think about all the different ways we get information today, TV, podcast, you know, Billboard, all over the place, right? And so a lot of times different. The TV, people might be doing this, and the other people might be doing that. But now you’re bringing all of those folks together. So that we’re kind of integrating what we’re doing in marketing and having a much more holistic approach.

Karan Rhodes  21:51

That’s interesting. And so do you focus on helping companies with their 360 marketing strategy? Or do you get in, roll your sleeves up? And actually do it with them? Or both?

Danica Kombol  22:04

Yeah, I’m, you know, me, I’m a worker bee. So I like to roll up my sleeves and get in there. I can write a strategy. But once the strategy is written, I want to get in and get it.

Karan Rhodes  22:16

You are, you are the Energizer Bunny, let me tell you.

Danica Kombol  22:21

Honestly, Part of my reason for that is when you’re running an agency, it’s going to sound weird, you’re running an agency, you run the agency, you don’t actually do the agency work. Does that make sense?

Karan Rhodes  22:32

It does, , yeah, absolutely.

Danica Kombol  22:34

You’re in charge of the infrastructure of the agency, you’re in charge of bizdev. You’re in charge of leadership, you’re charging, making sure everybody gets paid. You’re in charge of all of the big picture things. So if you’re actually doing client campaigns, you’re not running the agency. So one thing I knew I missed when I was running an agency it was like, I wanted to kind of, you know, get my hands dirty, I want to get in the dirt I want to dig around. So it’s fun, as a consultant to kind of get my hands dirty again.

Karan Rhodes  22:59

That is awesome. And because I admired it, so it sounds simple, but you’d be surprised how much of an effective activity it was. So tell me again about those, or explain to the audience about those Monday morning meetings that were got to be so famous with your staff, I thought they were still effect effective?

Danica Kombol  23:20

Well, you know, Monday morning is a dangerous time, because we don’t always come in on Monday ready to launch into work. So coffee and food were critically important. But we also tried to make our Monday morning meetings really upbeat, and fast. And we just kind of did a quick course with everybody kind of sharing what they had going on. What are their challenges, raise your hand if you need help, or raise your hand if you have an idea. So that kind of rapid fire approach of everybody kind of sharing what was on the docket, that we one of our core values was called, it’s handled like Olivia Pope. So in other words, if you’ve got a project on your plate, you got it, but it’s up to you to say, I might need support here. So it really did create a sense of teamwork. If somebody signs a little bit of help with that, hey, I’m gonna have spare time Tuesday afternoon, I can help you. So lots of collaboration, a lot of creative brainstorming, but also Monday morning meetings. Were also agenda driven. So that it wasn’t it’s kind of like what are we talking about today? You know, bang. bang, bang out, go do it.

Karan Rhodes  24:33

And I absolutely love that and I always use it as a best practice, even when I did my speaking engagements because it had a I mean, it wasn’t kind of brain surgery type of things. But it the way you all implemented it really helped to decrease silos. Because people weren’t wondering, you know what Sally over here was doing or Jane over there was doing, they had like a quick thirty second, high level You know, overview and people got grounded and to your point books throughout great ideas or people they should follow up with or, or what have you. But it had a nice mix of the agenda, creativity, and spontaneity all at once. And so that’s what I really enjoyed, as, you know, an HR professional from the outside looking in, you know, seeing how effective those were. And I definitely wanted to give you kudos for that.

Danica Kombol  25:28

Well, we loved having you and you came and visited. So

Karan Rhodes  25:31

Thank you so much. All right, well, we’re almost out of time, Miss Danica. But I’d love for you to, before you get out of here, share a little bit about what you did in between selling your business. And starting up at the Chameleon Collective,

Danica Kombol  25:49

The true story? Do you want me tell the true story?

Karan Rhodes  25:52

Whatever you feel more comfortable at that was about one thing, because I checked in with you every now and then. But whatever you like to share,

Danica Kombol  26:01

I gave myself time. That’s the truth. The true story is what now, the true story is I gave myself time. Yes. That’s what I want to do this year. Yeah, I gave myself I have been on a whirlwind, you know, for over 10 years running a business, growing a business. And you know, as an entrepreneur, you’re kind of always in a slight state of worry. And you always have too much on your plate, I just don’t know that there’s any way around it. If there was I missed the boat, I missed the memo. And somebody’s figured it out, let me know, maybe I’ll consider being an entrepreneur again. But I knew that I had to give myself time to settle my brain. To think. I did a lot of meditating, I did a lot of yoga. I did a lot of kind of like reading a book and saying, “Oh, you can read three pages at a time and not have to send an email. Oh, now you can read five pages at a time.” I also, this was actually pre pandemic that I bought it but it came in really, really handy is I had a midlife crisis, and I bought a little vintage red camper. And I looked at my husband one day, and I said the pandemic still going on. But I think it’s safe enough to travel. And we drove across the country with a camper and we drove back. And you know, this was a time, so much discord in America, too, that. It allowed me to kind of see America in a new light and realize it is a beautiful country. We have a lot of flaws. But there was real joy in seeing the beauty across the country via our camper, staying at campsite. And

Karan Rhodes  27:42

It was just amazing to watch. So listeners, I would track Danica every now and then I’m I will say I’m not always on Facebook all the time. But I would check in every now and then just to see where she was out because she would post great pictures and places she was eating or people she had met or the beautiful countryside. And I thought it was important for you to share because leaders of all types, sometimes forget, there are times, you might need to take that time and give yourself grace to decompress or rejuvenate yourself. Shift your mindset in prep for your next great chapter in life. And I don’t think we talk about that. And that we’re, sometimes we talk about mindfulness. But I mean people are like okay, what does that mean and how do we really make it happen? And I thought it was great for you to share that example, because when you did have time and space to do that, you have the courage to just take the bull by the horns and do it. And I really admire that.

Danica Kombol  28:43

Well, you know, if you think about it, if you think about a brain like a muscle, and think about how you’re using your brain during the course of the week. And if it’s busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, too many things on my plate, your brain gets adapted to responding to that. And what I found was my ability to do kind of the deeper thinking that I needed for my strategy work was so hard to get into it, you know, I’d have got to write a strategy and it’d be on my plate, and I couldn’t get to it. And maybe at 10:30 at night, I could finally get to then I’d be tired. Now, the time I took, I sit down on my computers like oh, you got some strategy, and within minutes, I’m in it. But I had to calm that brain down.

Karan Rhodes  29:26

 And lookat you now just thriving. Just do it. And I am so happy for you. And I’m just happy to be part of your network as well.

Danica Kombol  29:35

Well I’m thrilled to be part of the Shockingly Different network because I think I’m sometimes shockingly different and I love the way you are shockingly different. And yet we play very well with outsiders and we play well and within a corporate structure. But we’re still who we are.

Karan Rhodes  29:53

We’re still who we are. We still are two peas in a pod. Well thank you so much Danica for sharing your story. with our listeners, I’m sure there’s some great nuggets that they have taken away, at the very least, to have the courage to, you know, stick through the good times and sometimes the bumps in the road. But you are a fantastic role model. And thank you for leading at the top of your game.

Danica Kombol  30:17

Oh, well thank you for having me. I’m really honored to be here.

Karan Rhodes  30:20

Great. Thanks again. Take care. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Danica Kombol, partner consultant with the chameleon collective links to her bio, her inter interior leadership playbook and additional resources can be found in the show notes, both on your favorite podcast platform, your choice, and at leadyourgamepodcast.com. And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of influencer marketing. Well, believe it or not every successful leader must possess sharp influencer marketing skills. At its simplest, an influencer is someone who can influence others to take a course of action. And if you’re employed in the workplace, you’re going to need influencing marketing skills to influence others to support you and your ideas. And if you’re a business owner, you’re going to need influence or marketing skills to influence customers to buy from you. I wanted to take a minute to share three tactics you can use to help build a strategy that will influence others. The first tactic is to appeal to the head. Logical appeals tap into people’s rational and intellectual perspectives. You present an argument for the best choice of action to them based on organizational benefits, or the personal benefits, or both all appealing to people’s minds. The second tactic involves appealing to the heart. emotional appeals connect your message goal or project to individual goals and values. And idea that promotes a person’s feelings of well being, service or sense of belonging really tugs at the heartstrings and has a really good chance of gaining support. And my third tip is to appeal to the hands. Cooperative appeals involve collaboration, consultation, and alliances in order to accomplish mutually important goals. This method extends a hand or olive branch to others, those that you’re trying to influence, which is an extremely effective way of influencing others. Now if you need additional guidance on how to plan such a strategy, feel free to reach out to me here at Shockinly Different Leadership, or ping me on LinkedIn, and we’ll get you pointed in the right direction. Also remember to subscribe to the podcast and share it with at least one friend. Thanks so much for listening and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled k a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.