Episode 137 | Learning, Leading, and Leaping In with Carrie Stokes

Carrie Stokes  00:03

That class that I mentioned, the next level leadership for me, I think, really provided that additional insight of, okay, this is what it means to be a CEO, this is what it means to be a COO.  And like for me, there were certain of the C suite positions that wouldn’t have benefit just given my skills, my strengths, my, you know, opportunities for improvement.

Voiceover  00:03

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:36

Hello, my superstars. This is Karan, and welcome to another episode of the lead at the top of your game podcast, we are just truly honored to have a fantastic guest on today’s show. Her name is Carrie Stokes, and Carrie is the CEO and President of barge design solutions, which which is a Nashville Tennessee based engineering and architecture firm, and they have very diverse in house, multi multi disciplinary practice areas that she’s going to talk to us about in just a moment. I had a chance to do some deep research on the company, and it was truly impressed on the fantastic work that they have been doing for such a long time. And Bart is celebrating their 70th anniversary of existence, which is absolutely huge in this day and age, because longevity in business is kind of rarely heard of, unfortunately. So huge kudos to them. And I want to learn more about their secrets to longevity from Carrie in just a moment, but let’s first welcome Carrie to the podcast. So welcome Carrie.

Carrie Stokes  01:46

Thank you, Karan, thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to our conversation today.

Karan Rhodes  01:51

Yeah, same here, same here. I always say 30 minutes is not enough, because, you know, I’m very chatty, I’m very curious, but I don’t think anybody wants to hear a five hour podcast these days, so we do our best, I don’t know, but yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, before we dive in to your leadership experience and insights, as well as learning more about barge design solutions, we always love to learn just a tad bit about our guests personally. So for just as much as you feel comfortable, would you mind giving us a sneak peek into your life outside of work?

Carrie Stokes  02:29

Sure, these days, life has been pretty busy outside of work. So I have one son, Avery, and he is 17, so he’s a rising senior. So what has become a little bit all consuming as the college search. So, you know, we’ve kind of embraced it, and so we have taken some long weekend trips, and we’ve been to Chicago and Boston and New York, and it’s a pretty exciting time, yet nerve wracking in our household. So that’s been, I feel like a whole project in and of itself, but working through it together. So it’s been a lot of fun.

Karan Rhodes  03:05

That is amazing. Well, I will say I empathize with you all greatly as a my husband, are recent empty nesters. We went through it as well, but we survived. There is light at the end of that tunnel, so just stay focused.

Carrie Stokes  03:22

Thank you for saying so. I know in my head I had started a little bit like the countdown, like, this is the last time we’re gonna do this. And then my husband, bless him, was like, no, no, don’t do a countdown. Think about just the excitement of you know that activity, like, just change your frame of mind. I’m like, okay, good. Like, we get along. It’s good to have those reminders every now and then.

Karan Rhodes  03:44

It is, but it I don’t want to rain on your husband’s parade, but this is what I’ll say. My experience. He’s right. That’s the right mindset to go into it with. But if you’re anything like me, I’m very close to my my my family, and I will say the first couple of weeks after they left, I was, I wasn’t in depression, but I was just like, oh, it was the house is too quiet, and I really miss them. But you know what? About week three? Week Four, you find your groove and and you’ll you’ll really enjoy it, but then you’ll love hearing the updates when they go off to college. So that was my experience, anyway.

Carrie Stokes  04:25

We’re in prep mode. But yeah, thank you for sharing

Karan Rhodes  04:28

Absolutely well. I’d love to start off our conversation with, gosh, there’s so many ways we can go, but I’d love because a lot of, almost a lot of your career was at bars design, and I know I haven’t done it justice. So I’d first like you to share with our listeners a bit more about bars design solutions, what you offer, and then if you can give us just maybe a few high. Of milestones in your career progression there for to the point of view, eventually becoming CEO and president.

Carrie Stokes  05:08

Okay, yeah, that’s great. So Barge design solutions. So as you shared, We are headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. We are a professional design services firm. So we have architects, all kinds of engineers, planners, surveyors, environmental scientists. So really kind of the scope of disciplines, kind of start to finish of a design project, and we are grateful and honored we get to work with all different client types. So our federal government, state and local government, and also private industries, and we are about 650 team members spread across the southeast in 24 offices, but we work across the nation. One of the unique things about Barge is we are employee owned, and so every employee at barge has the opportunity to be an owner, and almost 80% of our employees have chosen to do that, so that for us is just, you know, kind of additional motivator brings alignment as we work forward, because we all share in the success, right? And so we are celebrating our 70th anniversary, which has just been a lot of fun to look back and think about how we started with three Vanderbilt grads, the different kind of, kind of, almost once in a lifetime projects that they were part of here in Nashville and really across the southeast. And then we have an annual meeting every year where we bring all employees and their partners into Nashville. So we had in April, was like 700 of our team members and families, and we got to celebrate that, and then also talk about our future, right? So we know there’s a lot of things that we can build on that we want to keep because it works. We also know there’s some things to stay in business another 70 years. You know, we’ll have to adapt and change and innovate. So having those discussions has really just kind of brought an even new level of excitement around barge. So that’s been fun to be a part of, for sure. And I have actually been at barge my whole career. So I came to school at Vanderbilt, started as an intern at barge this summer between my junior and senior year, worked a few hours during my senior year to kind of keep my foot in the door, and that worked, and I have been here ever since. So my background is Civil Environmental Engineering, and so I started out as a project engineer. I went back to school and got my masters, and then really fell in love with the contract law, Construction Law, project management. And so my path kind of went in that direction. So started leading project teams programs, and then started leading larger groups within our organization. And I had the opportunity last year to serve in our chief of staff role, which was a brand new role we had not had that at barge that was really set up in preparation for me to step into the role of CEO and president, which I did just this past March 1. So what I loved about the chief of staff role was the opportunities you really got to see, you know, just kind of big picture of the firm. So all the operations and our business services group, so accounting, marketing, HR, I mean, they are vital to what we do, right? They are, they are very valued members of our team, and so getting even more exposure to them, not just kind of being one of their clients, but actually kind of looking at it from their perspective of how they’re planning, how they’re supporting the business, was just, it was, in some ways eye opening, in some ways confirmed some things. And I used that year and chief of staff role to really just travel our offices and talk to people, learn what’s working well, we’ve experienced a lot of growth. So you know what Growing Pains we have and we need to address. And so that really helped me formulate the things I need to focus on as CEO. So, yeah, you know, just a few months into it, but so far so good.

Karan Rhodes  09:09

Hey, well, congratulations on becoming president and CEO. That is a huge career step for you, and I’ll just share it was probably about, maybe about six or seven episodes ago, I was interviewing a leader that was similar as you in the sense that they were in a male dominated industry, and their firm, their company, they Were pretty, pretty large. They had about 5000 employees, but their CEO was very intentional, intentional about her selection to succeed him. And they didn’t do a chief of staff role, but they did a similar type of quote, unquote internship, if you will. Yeah, and they did it for two years, and he actually, you know, groomed her, and she did just like you did, like the road show, learning, talking to people, getting prepped, and then she moved into the CEO role after a time period away. So it sounds like that’s a really good best practice that our listeners should know about.

Carrie Stokes  10:21

It is because it certainly was very helpful to me, but it’s really helpful to the firm too, right? So when we there, the chief of staff role actually went through a leadership development class. So kind of before the chief of staff role, there were six of us that went through a leadership development class, really to get exposure. You know, what does it mean to hold a C suite role? So our CEO COO and our Chief Strategy Officer facilitated that session. You know, we had homework assignments, and we, you know, we had kind of stretch assignments, and it was really out of that, that then I was identified for the CEO role, then sent spent that you’re doing Chief of Staff, and so the firm got to see me more, right? And so there was some visibility that, you know. It wasn’t like there was this announcement, and like Carrie, who, what you know, you know, I think so from a I just share, you know, repeat, like it was helpful for me, but I think it was good to help prepare the firm too, right? They, they knew who I was. I mean, I’ve been here almost 30 years, so some people knew me, but we’ve had a lot of new staff join the firm, which is great. So, yeah, it’s just, I do think it’s a good best practice, right? It benefits all parties. So it’s worth it is an investment. But, you know, worth it for sure, I think.

Karan Rhodes  11:43

And as you know that we really focus on, you know, different types of leaders on this podcast, and because you’ve had such a unique career, career experience, I’m just curious if you’ll share with our listeners kind of your thought process around, being amenable to moving into the CEO role, knowing that you had been with, you know, one major employer your entire career. Was there any hesitation? Or, you know, how did you get your mind around the the courage to say, Yes, I think this is the right next step for me.

Carrie Stokes  12:22

You know, that’s a great question, and one that kind of even maybe three or four years ago. You know, you do find yourself kind of moving up, taking more responsibilities, and then you do ask yourself, What’s next, both for yourself and then wanting to provide those opportunities for those who are working for you, because they’re doing great things, and you want them to move up. And that class that I mentioned, the next level leadership for me, I think, really provided that additional insight of, okay, this is what it means to be a CEO. This is what it means to be a COO and like for me, there were certain of the C suite positions that wouldn’t have benefit just given my skills, my strengths, my, you know, opportunities for improvement. And so I begin to see myself there. And then part of it for me too was just given where we are as a firm. So I, you know, was really honest with myself to just say, Okay, we’ve experienced a lot of growth. This is a period where we need to, you know, we want to continue the growth trajectory, but we also want to address some growing pains. And I think what I bring to the table is what the firm needs right now. So that was an assessment. And then I talked to my family too. I mean, I talked to my husband, I talked to my son, and said, Hey, this isn’t something I do alone at work or at they were on board, and, as I suspected, fully supportive. So it was something that I get the question, like, when you started as an intern, did you know you want to be CEO? No, I’d right. I didn’t dream that far ahead, you know, but, but it’s been great, and I’m honored to have been selected and lead such a wonderful group of people.

Karan Rhodes  14:03

Ahh. That’s awesome. Well, you know, you were kind enough to share, you know, a couple of because we always try to give points of advice and to our listeners, and you were so kind to share two really big pieces of advice that you always try to reiterate as you talk to and mentor others about your success. And I know one of them was your just say yes mindset. And I think the second one was having a passion for continuous learning. So I’d love for you to share in your own words why those two are really important for you to, you know, get out to others that are more junior in their careers.

Carrie Stokes  14:46

You know that just say, yes. What I find, and it’s admirable, is, you know, a lot of people kind of junior in their career, you know, the setting goals they’re putting their mindset. I need to do this. And then. To do this, and then I’m, you know, and there is a tendency to kind of get fixated a little bit and become a little rigid, like, Okay, well, when’s this going to happen for me? What do I need to do to get there? And so just say yes, what I found here at large, and I’m grateful a lot of the roles that I held didn’t actually exist before I held them, so Chief of Staff wasn’t the first one. And that happens because of growth and because of the opportunity of being willing to kind of, you know, step outside your comfort zone a little bit. And the value, I think, in that is you get exposure to new people, new ways of doing things, new parts of the business, you know. And that’s what helped prepare me for this role, is I did get exposure. I kind of got out of my lane, and I got exposure to those different parts of the business. So while my background is engineering barges, we are a business, right? You know, we provide design services, but we’re a business, you know, for profit business. So having that, so I just encourage people to do that, one of the, I think, kind of best examples for me, which actually isn’t business related, but I was part of the Junior League of Nashville, which is a women’s organization, and wonderful. I highly recommend things like that for leadership opportunities. And they called me, wanted me to serve on the board, which, you know, it was very honored. But they said, hey, we’d really like you to serve as VP of Marketing Communications. And this was several years ago, and I remember saying, This is Carrie Stokes. Did you call the right person? You know, I’m an engineer, right? Like you need to lead it. You know, you know, you don’t have to be the one putting out the press releases and doing this. You need to lead the team. And that, I thought was just so neat, and I did it, and I learned so much, not, you know, just about marketing, but about leading a team of diverse groups, and some of them having different backgrounds than mine. So just saying yes to things like that is just really helpful. Helps you build your network and your skill sets.

Karan Rhodes  17:02

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, well, thank you for that piece of advice, and we’re going to make sure we document that in our show notes for our listeners, for them to re reread, because it’s those are two incredibly pieces of advice. I’d also like free love for you to share. You know, you know, I come from my corporate career is long term employee of Microsoft, multiple roles. So Well, for my listeners, know about that, but then, you know, in my consulting career, work with a lot of also enterprise level firms, but a lot of private back, private equity back, high growth firms as well. And and I’ve also worked for six years in the engineering industry, is more from a strategic HR perspective versus, you know, engineer yourself, but I have sensitivity and knowledge around the industry and the folks and what it takes to be successful. So this is all a setup to say, you know, historically in fields such as engineering and technology and a lot of the other sciences out there, it is really tough for female professionals in general, not in as you go up the ladder of responsibility, it’s even tougher. So do you have any practical advice for other females who find themselves in male dominated industries that to help them keep the faith and have the courage to continue on, to show up as their best selves, even if maybe working conditions aren’t quite ideal,

Carrie Stokes  18:44

Yeah. No, I, you know, I think this advice is really applicable to male and female, but it does land a little different sometimes, when you’re the only female in the room, right?

Karan Rhodes  18:53

Yeah,

Carrie Stokes  18:54

But I would offer, you know, to advocate for yourself. Don’t hesitate to advocate, right? Because you you are your best advocate. Those of us who and I consider myself lucky, I had wonderful mentors, I had great coaches, had people who invested in me, and that’s a part of it, but part of it was me sharing what it is that I was looking for. Because, you know, as wonderful as people are in these relationships, they’re not mind readers, right? And so I think advocating for yourself, and then once you get that opportunity, what I have found sometimes is that people feel like they need to become somebody different, because there’s, you know, that there are different expectations when you take on a role, you know, and I have just found it’s just better to be yourself, be authentic, because that’s what got you there, right? That’s what you’re going to have a more of a comfort level, filling that new role and moving on. Just be yourself. Don’t try and be something you’re not.

Karan Rhodes  19:56

That’s right. I love that, and that is like the perfect um. Um, piece of advice. And I’ll even go a step further with when you’re you know, speaking to you know, your your manager, or those that could potentially advocate for you. If you know of a role that you really, really want, you know, definitely share it and have it in mind. But also, if the role you want, maybe not does not exist, but there are things that you want to make sure, that you want to be considered on the short list to be informed about, say that as well, because I know I did that a lot in my career. That’s why I have such a varied career. There wasn’t the perfect role for me, but I knew I love, like, big, hairy, audacious people, challenges. And I love strategic thinking. I love ideation and innovation. And so I would say, you know, any kind of big challenges like that, when you don’t have anybody there, you don’t know someone that is perfect to take it over, at least present it to me. Let’s have a conversation about it, because I love those kind of things, and because of that, you know, I had so many opportunities presented to me, like in the, you know, merging acquisitions field, you know, in the high potential leadership development fields, in the creating HR infrastructure fields, there weren’t jobs that said, quote, unquote that. But when those opportunities came up, people remembered, hey, you know, Karan is kind of game for doing big, interesting things, so let’s talk to her about that.

Carrie Stokes  21:37

Yeah, I think it’s good for people to know if you’re looking for more, right? Like, and that’s the other thing I think do, like, invest in yourself too. So yes, a lot of companies have wonderful and we do here at large leadership programs, emerging leaders, established leaders. But what I found too is there’s also some of it that I took on me, like, if I was interested in a certain subject, you know, taking ownership of my continuous learning as well. So that might have been at night or on the weekends or whatever, to just kind of help prepare me for those opportunities, because you don’t know always when they’re going to come up.

Karan Rhodes  22:15

That’s right! Absolutely, absolutely. And I’m just curious, and I meant to ask you this a little bit earlier, but you when you were sharing your some highlights of your career, you mentioned that you, you know, started working, then you went back to school. And so I’m curious your, you know, thought processes around that. And you know, with how challenging that was, assuming you had started your family at that point in time.

Carrie Stokes  22:44

Yeah, I was married. I did not yet have kids, but I went back to school and was working full time and so that for me, I graduated with an undergraduate degree. I had an internship at Bard, so I was pretty sure that the engineering field was gonna stick. But yeah, being honest, I wasn’t 100% and so, you know, I thought, Hey, before I go back and spend the time, the money, you know, on a master’s degree, let me just be sure, and I’m that path worked for me. I’m glad I did it that way, because I ended up kind of changing my focus when I did go back. So when I went back, I think I shared a little bit. I took more. I took, certainly, some technical classes, but I took more business related classes. And so, you know, it took me a little longer. I could only take a class or two at a time because I was working full time, but it was worth it, and I feel like I added to the class in different ways. So in some of those classes, you know, there were students that went straight through, right? They had never had a job, you know, out in the industry. And so, you know, I was glad to bring my perspective of having worked, you know, a few years. And hey, yeah, that sounds good on paper, but that’s not always works, right, right, you know, it was just kind of nice to be able to add that little bit different perspective there. But I had to decide that it was worth it. And then I picked the time and went back. And I’m glad I did. I’ve benefited from that network and and just the knowledge that I gained there.

Karan Rhodes  24:21

Sounds wonderful. And so I’m curious also, you know now you’re, you know, a few months into your CEO role, and you know you’re celebrating your 70th year anniversary. How are you thinking about guiding the firm moving forward? Because you’ve had a long history, but you know, today’s world of work changes in the nanosecond, especially with technologies and all kinds of things that are guiding the market. So what are you thinking about, or what are maybe one or two things that you’re trying to do to help. Uh, Shepherd barge into its next chapter.

Carrie Stokes  25:03

yeah. So it was really great timing, and we kind of knew this was happening. So in 2023 barge went through the process of putting in place our new five year strategic plan, and so I had a big role in that. And so last year was our first year. So if I’ve taken over and what is your tool plan, I was part of developing that plan, and so I’m committed to seeing that through. And so we’re not in a position where, you know, sometimes new leaders come in, it’s like, oh, you know, we’re not, we’re not doing that. We’re gonna go right here. And that’s not so, you know, for a firm perspective, you know, we’ve got some consistency. The plan makes sense, you know, we still check in on it, like, Hey, do we need to pivot? I mean, there’s a lot going on in the marketplace, so that allows me to keep that moving forward, and then really spend a lot of time thinking about how we work. So to your point about innovation, that’s the thing that that you know that in cybersecurity, are the things that keep me up right? Like we’ve got, we have to evolve. We have to figure out how to be more efficient, to streamline work processes. You know, we’re using AI in certain ways as appropriate, but how can we use it more? And so it’s those sort of conversations that are, you know, can be intimidating, but fun. You know, different perspective sitting in around the room. So that’s the interesting part. Is, how are we going to work different? We know we know who we are, we know what we do, we know who we want to sell it to, and kind of where our sweet spot is, but the way we deliver work will definitely change. You know, next year and three years, five years, it’s gonna be pretty different in some areas I think,.

Karan Rhodes  26:42

Oh, absolutely. I bet this is gonna be natural. And as CEO, you and your team, you know, will have to help, you know, guide the company and pivoting to where you all will need to do or tweaking, maybe hopefully a little stay competitive, hopefully won’t be a radical change, but it sounds like you all have the strategic plans in place. Well, we know Carrie, we can’t let you sneak out of here without asking you our signature question that we love to ask our guests and for my new listeners out there. You may not know, but our firm did research on high performing leaders and companies, and out of that research came seven big buckets of activities that high performing leaders and companies always leveraged, and all are equally as important. You use them at different times based on the situations, but usually there’s one that really resonates and pop for you. And so Carrie was so kind to share that leading with strong strategic decision making really resonated with her. And it is what it sounds like. The way we define it is making good strategic decisions yourself and also leading great decision making processes with your teams or colleagues or whoever you’re collaborating with. So curious minds would love to know, Carrie, why strategic decision making really resonated with you.

Carrie Stokes  28:13

It did as you shared. Karan, kind of all of those are needed and kind of rise to the top at some point, but strategic decision making for me right now, where we are as a firm is a little bit what a bit shared. It’s important, because it would be really easy to get head down. Hey, we have this plan. We’re focused on what we’re doing or know it, but the strategy is the fun part, where you get to talk about, okay, where do we want to be building the plan to get there? And that’s what we need to do on the how we work. And so, you know, sometimes, depending upon, you know, kind of your comfort level, people just kind of drift to the to do list and the day to day operations. But that’s not where as leaders, you know, we need to be strategic mindset, making sure that we’re preparing our staff and our firm for the future, right? And so that, just given my role could change, just given where we are, really spoke to me when you provided those that list. So

Karan Rhodes  29:10

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your opinion. That is very invaluable. And you know, for many people in roles like yours, who are the executive leaders are on in the C suite, strategic decision making and courageous agility are two the most popular ones, because you’re, you’re accountable for those every single day. Yes, well, all of them, but definitely those do every single day. Well, of course, Carrie, we’re going to have a ton of information about you and where to find barge design solutions in our show notes. We’ll have links and everything there, but I always love to give the guests a little air time to share as well. So if our listeners are interested in learning more about barge and or you. Two, where can they find you?

Carrie Stokes  30:02

Yes, they can find more information about barge at bargedesigns.com, and then they can find more info on me, at the website or on my LinkedIn profile,

Karan Rhodes  30:12

all right. And that is Carrie Stokes. Is two, R’s, right, C, A, R,  R, I, E Stokes, in case you want to look her up on LinkedIn and and learn more about her background and maybe reach out and see if she’ll connect with you. Well, thank you so much, Carrie, for the gift of your time and your insights. This has been a fantastic episode, and it was great talking with you.

Carrie Stokes  30:39

Well, thank you, Karan. I enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.

Karan Rhodes  30:41

Oh, absolutely. And thank you to listeners for the gift of your time as well, because, as I always say, there are literally millions of other podcasts out there, and we do not take your patronage lightly at all. All that we ask is you like and subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform of choice, and also share a podcast with just one friend, because by doing so, it will help us all better lead at the top of our games. Thank you so much, and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.